[fhbdukfrh]

You don't get to have one without the other though. That same conversation with Bob at the end of the day when you talked about crappy 90's VR in movies is when you find out Bob is writing an emulation library at home for the turbo graphics console and knows everything about low level graphics. That sticks with you when 3 months later you hear in the hallway about a new visualization project that needs skillet people. This happens thousands of times over.