[tagrun]

That's because in the US, PhD is actually the combination of masters degree (typically 2 years) and PhD (typically 3-4 years) in other countries.

At least in sciences, US universities don't typically even offer a MSc program; people can get MSc by enrolling into PhD, which is typically the only available graduate program, and quitting it after completing the coursework.

[seanmcdirmid]

That isn’t really true either. We don’t receive masters degrees unless we do a gentleman’s withdraw, then it’s only an M Phil. If you come into a PhD program with an MSC, you can still take 8 years to finish, ya, you get to skip some course requirements, but that isn’t where the majority of the time in a PhD goes.

MSC’s aren’t offered as much anymore because they had the same problem as PhDs (it could take 4 years to finish one) without the prestige of a PhD at the end. They don’t even guarantee much of a jump start on a PhD. These programs have mostly been replaced by professional non-thesis or thesis-light options, along with “5th year” programs at universities that tack on a few courses and a straightforward thesis to an undergrad program (MIT is famous for these, many universities have copied that).

European universities often have the latter 5th year programs as well where they are considered even more crucial because many of them have only 3 year undergraduates.

[tagrun]

What exactly isn't true about it? In all institutions that I know all, students are given MSc status as soon as they complete the requirements, not M Phil (never even heard of it).

Some students leave the school after that point, but it doesn't invalidate their MSc, nor their MSc gets converted to M Phil or whatever. It's not a common thing, but I've seen students drop with MSc mostly because of issues with their supervisors (tenured faculty without much incentive to do research at a good pace).

Edit: I looked it up, and apparently, you're making a blanket statement based on a niche practice in a handful of US universities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Philosophy#United_St...

"Although most American universities do not award the MPhil, a few award it under certain circumstances."

[tagrun]

And it takes 2 years for most students to meet the MSc requirements (basically they need to complete the coursework), not 4 years, barring some special cases. Again, I'm talking about the common practice, not the handful of exceptional universities in the US you're referring to.

[jroesch]

Many universities just toss you an MS degree along the way for free in your PhD, but coming in with one has no real effect on your PhD length besides waving some clad requirements. At the end of the day US PhD programs just assume you will do 5 or more years of research, for those looking to be professors this is a boon as many US PhDs skip the postdoc step often required for EU PhDs which are typically 3ish years.

[phdthrowawaydoc]

In many US schools, an undergrad entering a PhD program will need to satisfy the Masters requirements along the way. The only way you don't end up with an MS degree is if you forget to file the paperwork.

[cossatot]

It depends on the discipline. In the geosciences, MSc degrees are the typical 'working degree'. If you want a job, you basically need one, therefore lots of schools offer them. Most people spend 2-3 years on an MSc and then hopefully get a paper or two out before starting work or going on for a PhD (another 4-8 years). You also have to have a pretty solid thesis to get the MSc so you can't just bow out of a PhD program.

Some of the more academically-focused (private) schools don't have much of an MSc program but they're atypical, and they don't dominate research like they do in other fields.

[seanmcdirmid]

Oh yes, all my experience is for computer science.