[rinchik]

> medium-sized company

this is mind boggling! For med size company to have a separate ops department. I can't imagine that responsibility for MY code in production (and delivery of the said code to production) lies on a different team/department that are possibly not even on the same floor/building I'm at.

Separate OPS department is where dev's happiness and job satisfaction go to die.

I'd imagine this outdated setup in some government agency but not in a med-size company.

[porpoisemonkey]

> I can't imagine that responsibility for MY code in production (and delivery of the said code to production) lies on a different team/department that are possibly not even on the same floor/building I'm at.

I recently did some interviews with our devs to find out what features we could add to our platform that would provide them with value. The result was interesting and I found that people typically fall into one of two camps: 1) I want to know everything about my deployed service and have tools that alert me and allow me to intervene, or 2) I don't want to know anything about the deployed service runtime and expect operations to handle my issues and alert me when there's a problem.

It sounds like you might be in the former. =)

[rinchik]

The initial intention (of DevOps) was to eliminate these discrepancies by eliminating Ops department all together. DevOps doesn't necessarily mean devs doing ops, but it means devs and people curios about ops sit together, as one team, as one department, right next to each other. This setup improves practically every aspect of the product development, support, and delivery, as well as collaboration, communication, and response times.

Initial intention aside, it feels that there is a general consensus that VAST majority of the companies that have `devOps` in the job description somewhere are cargo culting and have no clue what they are doing.

If you slap `Dev` prefix to your Ops department your job postings will look "trendy" but nothing else will actually change.

DevOps is a culture, not a team or department.

[ek750]

Sounds like how companies or teams cargo-cult “Agile” and have no idea what it is or why.

[diek]

You may deploy your application package (however that is packaged up), but what happens when a hard drive starts to die? It may not _die_, it just may have elevated write latency. What about a RAID controller firmware having issues above a certain IOPS threshold? What about a critical kernel security patch that has to go out, and your application runs on 1,000 servers?

None of those things are related to your code directly, but may interact with it at some level. At some point, you get so far removed from the work on your actual application that it makes sense to move that to another 'Infrastructure' group.

[c3534l]

What do you consider a medium-sized company? Or a department even? I'm having trouble imagining a department being in an entirely different building. The companies I've worked for who I considered medium-sized had hundreds of employees and if they had multiple different offices, each department had a physical presence at each office.

[scruple]

Cargo cult doesn't care about the number of employees in a company.