[blobs]

Is that surprising? As if a just born baby cannot have consciousness because it doesn't know a language yet.

Makes me think of mindfulness, the practice of putting consciousness first by trying to disallow thoughts while experiencing the present, proves it all to me. We think too much.

[ohduran]

Good point! Language can express consciousness, which means that consciousness imply the ability to use language. As in, "we don't know what's inside, so the ability to puke sounds is enough for us to say there's a mind in there". For now, we can't separate one from the other...but that doesn't mean that that separation doesn't exist.

[andrepd]

It's not obvious to me that a baby has consciousness. I don't remember anything from before I was 2 or 3. Isn't a newborn almost an automaton? Or rather, how can you prove that it is not?

[me_me_me]

There are people with brain damage, that loose short- or long-term memory. Are they conscious?

This whole debate is very grey area and one could argue from either position and never prove anything (which is one of the reasons I like to read and think about what make us 'us').