[wtdata]

My arguments are the facts.

Climate action, measuring exactly this, has China as doing "OK" and India as doing "great" when their comulative projected ”increase" by 2030 will be similar than all present emissions by USA and EU.

This is the ideology being pushed at the moment.

https://climateactiontracker.org/

[sachdevap]

And have you seen the per capita emissions of each of these countries? India's emissions per capita aren't even a drop in the bucket. (Numbers in metric tonnes CO2)

1 China 6.4 2 United States 15.0 3 India 1.6

2.5 times China and almost 10 times India. Countries that are already rich enough to invest heavily in pushing renewable energy and nuclear energy need to aid countries trying to get people out of poverty. You can't do that by providing direct energy cause that is not how energy works. So you do it by allowing emissions to these countries while reducing your own to fall given that you already use so much more per capita.

You want to see hypocrisy? How about the US's hypocrisy in stopping solar subsidies to build local solar industries? This discussions is not about who is entitled to more emissions. It is about a pragmatic approach to reducing emissions. While you dish out "facts", also care to read about policy and arguments.

[beat]

This is why it's so important that wind and solar costs have plummeted to below the cost of coal. If it wasn't for the introduction of fracking, they'd be much cheaper than natural gas, too.

As developing nations build up the energy base, it'll be easier and cheaper to do it with renewables than with fossil fuels. That changes the equation tremendously.

[wtdata]

You are just validating my point with that "per capita" narrative.

The point is simple: you want to pretend your are saving the planet by allowing China and India to increase their emissions, more than USA and EU will ever be able to cut them (even if they cut it to zero).

Explain how that can possible save the planet please.

[sachdevap]

More incorrect statements labeled as "facts".

#1 🇨🇳 China 9,839 27.2%

#2 🇺🇸 United States 5,269 14.6%

#3 🇮🇳 India 2,467 6.8%

India's total emissions are a fraction of US and China's. You are guilty of the same hyperbole you claim to be fighting from the other side.

"Per capita" is not a narrative. It is a measure of how much room there is to reduce emissions while maintaining quality of life. It's not like you can just go to war with India and China and clear this up. You can't bring them to the negotiation table claiming moral superiority.

What you are suggesting is not a strategy for efficiently negotiating our way out of this deep hole, but rather a dictatorial approach which can only be enforced by a dictatorial regime across the world.

[mercurysmessage]

> The gist of the so called environmentalists is (factually, these really are their proposals when you look at their numbers): ok USA and EU, you have to urgently stop your emissions, even if that means total economic breakdown. China and specially India, it's ok you can continue your emissions, and increase then by even more than the all 1st world will cut theirs (even if they cut it to 0), that's just fine since your are entitled to it because you didn't do it in the past.

No, those are not factual. It's a strawman.

[wolco]

I wasn't aware, thank you for presenting a different view I wasn't exposed to.