[abtinf]

> Not having children doesn't mean you're not allowed to criticize parents for poor behaviour.

That is exactly what it means. People without children have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and have no means of acquiring that knowledge except by having a child.

[kelnos]

We're veering sharply into off-topic territory here, but: I don't need to be a helicopter pilot to know that if I see one stuck in a tree, someone screwed up.

Yes, there are many things about being a parent that you can't truly know or understand until you experience it for yourself, but that doesn't mean that only a parent can see when another parent has screwed up.

[MFLoon]

Ironically, this sort of outrageously absolutist assertion sounds like exactly the kind of thing a parent would say to their child to quash a debate about their decision making.

[jessaustin]

It's just as convincing when she drops it on her kids...

[okmokmz]

>That is exactly what it means

So I can't criticize law enforcement because I'm not a LEO? I can't criticize a politician because I'm not in politics? I can't criticize a woman because I'm not female myself? I can't criticize a parrot owner because I don't own a bird? This is an absolutely ridiculous line of reasoning

>People without children have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and have no means of acquiring that knowledge except by having a child

So a male doctor can't be a gynecologist because they have "no idea what they are talking about and have no means of acquiring that knowledge except by having" female genetalia? I can't have any idea what it's like owning a parrot except by owning a bird? Again, this is absolutely absurd. Having a child does not enter you into some elite class of individuals that no one else can understand, and it's perfectly acceptable for me to criticize you despite not having children myself

[Volundr]

Plus it ignores that we are all former children. Excepting of course those that aren't "former".

[magduf]

Yeah, exactly: everyone should remember what it was like being a kid.

[koonsolo]

In my experience, the least informed always have the strongest opinions. The well informed see all te complexities and know "it's not that easy". Reminds me of this quote:

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.”

[jacobsenscott]

Of course anyone can criticize anything they want to. But generally they'll just sound stupid to anyone who actually knows the space. I've never heard a non-parent make a remotely sensible criticism about parenting. I've never heard a non-programmer make a sensible statement about programming, etc. Parents aren't an "elite class of individuals" - we simply have experience non-parents don't. Non-parents talking about parenting are as a rule hilarious examples of the Dunning–Kruger effect. (I'm not a psychologist, so psychologists would probably consider that last statement a hilarious example of the Dunning-Kruger effect :))

[kelnos]

While I absolutely agree that there is a ton of bad behavior in the world from people ignorantly pontificating on things outside their wheelhouse, it is incredibly arrogant and ignorant to suggest that non-parents know nothing about parenting. It just doesn't even make logical sense.

If you are constantly late for everything and always blame it on your kid, you are doing something wrong. You should know by now that things always take longer than expected with a kid, and plan accordingly. No, you will not always get it right, and that's fine. Occasional lapses are expected and accepted. But if it becomes a regular pattern, you are simply shifting blame for your poor time-management skills onto a child that does not deserve that finger pointed at them.

If you are going to discount my opinion out of hand, I suppose I can't keep you from doing that. But, my opinion happens to agree with that of a parent upthread, so... take that as you will, I suppose.

[MFLoon]

> I've never heard a non-parent make a remotely sensible criticism about parenting

Really? What about children of truly abusive parents (who are not themselves parents)? Are their critiques of their parents as parents not remotely sensible?

I'm not at all in favor of people aggressively policing the parenting practices of others. I just don't think Dunning-Kruger applies at all here, because everyone (except orphans) has some significant experience with the practice of parenting - even if it is only as the parented, you can still form cogent opinions about the practice. It's not some high expertise domain like programming, it's literally human nature.

[randlet]

It doesn't even have to be as extreme as abuse. For example, non-parents and parents alike should feel free to be critical of parents who allow their kids to misbehave in a restaurant.

[gbacon]

In the rational sense, you have a point. I’m sympathetic to your position. I wish people were better at calmly and dispassionately weighing facts and reason, but we are largely not.

Your male OB example is really close to hitting a subject where people are sometimes angrily and even violently attached to their positions and on which some insist that men do not even have worthwhile opinions — merely because they are men. Similarly, others stake out positions that it is okay to “punch up” because they allege that ethics, propriety, and justice depend on group identity. These are utterly irrational by the same point that I believe you’re making, but knowing your audience is crucial. Good luck being heard on certain subjects.

Parenting isn’t that extreme, but a strong emotional component is present. With criticism in general, if in the audience’s view you haven’t earned the right, then you’re just running your mouth. You may have heard of Powdered Butt Syndrome: anyone who has powdered your butt does not want your opinion on money or sex. Being a parent changes everything in ways that it’s difficult for non-parents to understand. Even if a non-parent accepts this on an intellectual level, the deeper visceral appreciation is still missing.

Yes, being late is rude. Screaming children in a restaurant while others are trying to enjoy a meal is annoying. Parents should not allow their kids to behave like ill-mannered brats. To really oversimplify, becoming a parent tends to raise some parents’ tolerance to misbehavior. I can talk about gross topics over dinner that would have caused my pre-kids self to ask for a change of subject or to excuse myself from the table. Parenting can be exhausting. All relationships are challenging at times. Sometimes people choose to pick their battles.

All that said, some parents dismiss advice or criticism from other parents too. It must be nice to have your perfect kids, live in your perfect neighborhood, and send them to their perfect school. What do you know about my situation? You have X and I don’t. I have Y and you don’t.

Anyone can criticize to criticize. Doing it with love to actually help someone else is much more delicate.