[hdfbdtbcdg]

There is another large part of the community that wants no part in the community as a result of events like this. I guess we will end up with two communities one focused on software the other focused on social justice (wokeware). It looks like the social justice community will get the code and trademarks. Fortunately thanks to RMS the code is available to fork.

I guess things aren't organised yet but I and others I have spoken to IRL have already stopped interacting with certain projects.

I was wondering if some of the community's thought leaders might jump ship - but I guess they will be purged anyway so that should help!

EDIT: Would any downvoters care to comment on why they think this won't happen? Do they think we will continue to participate against our will...

[marijn]

The assumption that those who care about treating others decently can not at the same time be good technologists speaks volumes.

[hdfbdtbcdg]

In my experience social justice equates to the opposite of treating people decently.

[krapp]

People like RMS and Linus Torvalds are responsible for normalizing the premise that to be a good hacker you can't care about things like treating other people decently - that's just giving in to politically correct wrongthink from SJWs and normie scum after all.

[lostjohnny]

I still have to testimony an useful contribution (or proof of donation) from those attacking open source projects for not using gender neutral pronouns.

I'm not young anymore, in my 40s, but I have hope that in the next 40 years some of them will stop being a dick and do actual work.

It's never too late to change.

[flatb]

Can you detail, without strawmen or anecdotes, the thought process by which you equate asking to use gender neutral pronouns, or discussing the possibility of it, with "attacks"?

[hdfbdtbcdg]

Its not asking though. Its screaming, threatening and drumming people out of their jobs if they don't comply.

I say this as someone that uses gender neutral pronouns etc.

[flatb]

Can you provide some examples that prove the existence a common pattern in the software development industry of people being "screamed at", "threatened", and "drummed out of their jobs" for not using gender neutral pronouns, please?

I'm more than ready to agree with you if you can.

I would also like to know, if you don't mind, what you consider to be good reason to "refuse to comply" with addressing someone in a way they prefer to be addressed, by using a three-letter word instead of another three-letter word.

[apocolyps6]

I'm out of the loop. Was someone fired over this?

[homonculus1]

You're experiencing the motte and bailey in action, my friend. "It's only asking people to be nice, nothing more!"

[underwater]

You're hoping that the next generation will see the light and adjust their behaviour to your expectations?

It ain't gonna happen. This is the struggle of every single generation.

[stelonix]

Interesting, I've been thinking about this myself: whether a new foundation or movement will be created around RMS and without the stigmas that allow people to be "cancelled" over their thoughts or opinions. I have to say, the FSF without RMS simply makes no sense. It's one of those institutions where more than 51% of its effectiveness came from a single person. I firmly believe a "fork" for the FSF is coming soon.

[gwd]

> I have to say, the FSF without RMS simply makes no sense. It's one of those institutions where more than 51% of its effectiveness came from a single person.

If that's true, then Stallman has completely failed as a leader. There are 7 billion people in the world; if after 40 years there is nobody of similar caliber at the FSF, it is because he has either not attracted them, not trained them, or has driven them away. (Perhaps by asking them on a date or handing them a card that said "tender embraces" the very first time he met them.)

I sincerely hope that there will be people in the FSF that can make it more robust, and set it up for long-term success.

[craigsmansion]

> I sincerely hope that there will be people in the FSF

There are: https://www.fsfla.org/%7Elxoliva/

But apart from being next in line, he's also next in line: https://twitter.com/sarahmei/status/1174371580547223553

[lostjohnny]

> If that's true, then Stallman has completely failed as a leader

He's been under constant attack for the past 40 years.

Nobody wants to be friend with the smart friend who's also unpopular.

And that's what he failed, he trusted people would be decent.

They are not.

[johnny22]

i didn't wanna be his friend after meeting him personally. Nothing to do with him being unpopular, since i I (at the time) was an unpopular nerd too.

[hdfbdtbcdg]

We are not alone. It takes a brave person to put their head above the parapet in the current climate.

[lostjohnny]

it already happened.

As usual, not trying to be prejudicial here, it happened in the U.S. where different 501(c)(3) formed to attract donation capital, but that actually have been an enemy of large part of the FSF community.

There can't be one strong FSF they want many small feuds, it's like greenwashing, open washing is happening, which, BTW, "misses the point of free software".

Look at what happened to Eben Moglen, a person that nobody can describe as harsh, impolite, unempathetic, creepy or whatever BS they are throwing now at RMS.

And still in 2017 he was declared "no longer a friend of the free software community" by mjg59.

Why?

Because Moglen expressed his lawyer opinion in a way that Garret did not like.

Garret works at Google, Moglen still offers pro bono legal representation at the Software Freedom Law Center, which he founded.

It's not hard to take parts for me.

[flatb]

> harsh, impolite, unempathetic, creepy or whatever BS they are throwing now at RMS.

He has been accused, by several independent parties, of, among other things:

-Asking female coworkers to lay down topless on a mattress in his office.

-Threatening a colleague to kill himself if he/she didn't go on a date with him.

-Posting up signs in his workplace along the lines of "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)".

Do you think that reprieving someone for threatening a colleague to kill yourself if they don't give in to your romantic/sexual advances is "throwing BS"? It's an honest question.

[concordDance]

Can I have a reliable source on the suicide threat? In particular something indicating it was genuine rather than jocular.

[flatb]

https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/d59r46/richard...

From someone who worked at MIT.

[concordDance]

I see no dates, names, details or basically anything of substance relating to the suicide threat story. It seems to just be one of those sourceless rumours that get passed around as gospel.

Note in particular that the commentator does not say they saw this or even that someone who saw it told them. You're just hearing a rumour this person heard at MIT.

[hdfbdtbcdg]

I don't see any reliable source there. Are some of those profiles verified? I also didn't see any reference to suicide.

[andrekandre]

> Because Moglen expressed his lawyer opinion in a way that Garret did not like.

any article about what happened?