[jririi82zxn]

Wow everyone all excited about hosted FreeBSD jails

Some of us had deploy pipelines into “containers” working like a Lambda in 2003.

Nothing in software is all that novel these days, IMO.

All these features that have been there for a decade plus are just wrapped in a corporate brand now.

Progress.

[derefr]

The “feature” behind Lambdas aren’t the way they work; it’s the way they force you to work, exposing an ABI that forces “Lambda-compatible code” into a shape where it isn’t attempting to call into OS features of the local machine for things like state storage or IPC, but rather making calls to network-visible service endpoints to accomplish those tasks.

In other words, the Lambda environment, as a development target, is the exact opposite point on the spectrum from an OS like Mosix: rather than trying to make a big cluster of specialized compute resources appear as a standardized local POSIX environment, Lambda instead does away with the POSIX environment entirely and forces your code to interface with the big cluster of specialized compute resource “where it lives.” You can’t just write to disk, because there is no disk. You can’t just talk to other processes on the same machine, because there is no (multiprocessing) machine. In fact, you can’t even cache state in process memory indefinitely, because your process isn’t indefinite like it is in POSIX. Etc.

This is a big benefit for ops folks, insofar as code that’s written as “Lambda code” (but generically, using libraries like Fog) can be easily run in many more modern infrastructure environments (including on-prem ones!) than regular code can, “at scale”, without modification to the code itself. As well, these restrictions (like the one on not caching state in memory) force devs to confront what turn out to be the realities of fault-tolerance, which means far less of an ops headache later on, trying to baby along workloads that rely on never dying.

I would describe Lambda as doing a very similar thing for the server, as what Google’s Native Client (PPAPI) attempted to do for the browser: to create a new, strict ABI for developers to target, that forces code written against that ABI to build its features differently (i.e. more portably, more securely, etc.)

Or, philosophically, “serverless” is just a further extension of Heroku’s “twelve-factor”: it’s an approach that hobbles developers’ available toolkit, for the sake of making the workloads they produce better-behaved and more predictable at runtime.

[jririi82zxn]

Like I said I was providing largely that pattern years ago to devs.

Not very net new for me, except I’m tethered to AWS.

As usual: ymmv

[derefr]

Right, but, the "feature" of a popular standard isn't that it's a standard, but that it's popular.

The thing that was new about Facebook wasn't that it was different than MySpace, but that it was the first social network that managed to scale such that all your friends and relatives ended up using it without your pushing them to do so.

The differentiator of the serverless model is that it's a Schelling-fence development practice, such that you can find real infrastructure components in the wild that are targeted at "serverless deployment" and use them.

Or: there was likely no version of Wordpress developed specifically for your stack; but there is likely some version of Wordpress developed to be deployed on a FaaS cluster. That's what makes "serverless" worth paying attention to. Like Kubernetes, or even Linux: they're the first ubiquitous examples of their archetypes.

[afiori]

> Nothing in software is all that novel these days, IMO.

There is surely truth in this. But also, almost nothing is novel if you watch at the new stuff with the same mindset of the past.

It is wise to realize that most new stuff was already invented, but it is also wise to understand that the surrounding might have changed more than you realize.

(Talking out of my own ass here, just in philosophical terms)

[rodgerd]

> Wow everyone all excited about hosted FreeBSD jails

Wow, FreeBSD weenies are excited about re-discovering CICS.

See how annoying and wrong you sound?