[onion2k]

as someone in my 40's, I couldn't tell you the difference between someone who is 17, and someone who is 18

I suggest you turn down any offers from billionaire convicted sex traffickers to go to their private island and meet young women then.

To be honest, you should probably turn down that sort of offer even if you're really good at telling how old people are.

[falcolas]

If I'm invited to a private island by a billionaire and offered a prostitute, and she confirms that she's 18 or older and here of her own free will, well, I imagine most unattached people would have trouble saying no in those circumstances.

For me, it would be too much like romancing my nieces, so I doubt I would take up the offer. In 30 years, who knows.

[onion2k]

she confirms that she's 18 or older and here of her own free will

The crux of Stallman's argument is that in that case you would be unable to tell if the woman was lying because Epstein would have coerced her. You can't trust what she says.

However, where you and Stallman differ is that you're suggesting is that Minsky probably said yes and did sleep with the woman, and therefore broke the law.

[falcolas]

And probably shouldn't/wouldn't be charged since he was criminally mislead in the process of doing due diligence.

And he shouldn't even be held morally wrong in this case either, if we assume that he did his due diligence and had what he viewed to be legal and consensual sex.

[onion2k]

And probably shouldn't/wouldn't be charged since he was criminally mislead in the process of doing due diligence.

Rape is a crime that carries strict liability (under US law); ignorance is not a valid defence.

[falcolas]

There’s a significant difference between willful ignorance and being mislead. The law accounts for this is most cases.

[jacquesm]

It would help a lot of you stopped projecting your own feelings on the subject onto Minsky.

[falcolas]

I'm human. I can't be unbiased. This witch hunt of Stallman for rationally exploring "what if" scenarios makes me upset.

I don't know Minsky, I don't care about Minsky. All I'm really trying to do is re-inforce how and why Stallman's exploration is reasonable and rational. And, since it's brought up repeatedly in this exploration, why even the courts consider the spirit of the law alongside the letter of the law.

[jacquesm]

Stallman made a huge mistake: he forgot that he too is biased. Just like Lessig's defense of Ito damaged Ito and Lessig more than if Lessig had just STFU Stallman did the same for Minsky.

And Stallman being his usual amicable self he managed to do so in a way that a reaction was inevitable. If he wanted to do right by his friend he should have pointed out the flaws in the accusation, not to try to find some contorted way to argue that assuming it was true his friend should have walked without consequences.

Lessig falls into exactly the same trap, the fact that it is your friend who does something stupid or despicable does not make it any less so and in cases like that your friends would be better friends if they pointed this out to you. Preferably at a time that it would still make a difference.

Minsky may not be guilty of anything, and Stallman has shifted the debate over whether what he assumes Minsky has done should be legal or not (it shouldn't, let's be 100% clear on that) over whether or not it happened in the first place. And that is not helping at all.