[WhoBeI]

I was hoping this would happen. It will probably become a EU thing now.

The idea of a privately controlled currency needs to die quickly. Never been a fan of crypto currency in general but Bitcoin, and the like, are accepted because they are not centralized. Your Bitcoin won't change in value or disappear because your country and another get in a fight.

[Zak]

I'm quite fond of the idea of a decentralized currency that nobody has the ability to actively control becoming popular. That would act as a hedge against abuse of power by both governments and corporations.

A currency used worldwide, controlled by a corporation, and under the influence of the US government would be the exact opposite, and is not a thing I want to see succeed.

[lostjohnny]

> nobody has the ability to actively control

AKA only the really powerful entities can

AKA "dictatorship"

[Zak]

A really powerful entity, let's say Facebook, or the US government would find it difficult to do any of these with Bitcoin (used as the example because it's well-known):

* Alter the monetary policy significantly

* Prevent a specific person, organization, or country from using the currency

* Prevent the use of the currency for specific goods or services

That doesn't make using Bitcoin a magic bullet to be free from the influence of the US government even if its popularity and monetary policy were appropriate for widespread use as a currency, but it raises the difficulty level versus influencing someone who's doing business in USD.

[Bombthecat]

But it would certainly.

[scoobyyabbadoo]

>I'm quite fond of the idea of a decentralized currency that nobody has the ability to actively control becoming popular. That would act as a hedge against abuse of power by both governments and corporations.

Precisely what Satoshi Nakamoto cited as his motivations when introducing bitcoin on the p2pfoundation forums.

>A currency used worldwide, controlled by a corporation, and under the influence of the US government would be the exact opposite, and is not a thing I want to see succeed.

Completely agreed. The U.S. has been using any reach it has into other countries to push its very peculiar cultural viewpoints into countries that don't want them but need fair access to finance capital.

[smsm42]

There are lots of privately controlled currencies. Miles, points, certificates, game gold, etc. - they are all private currencies. Most of them aren't legal tender, but neither are cryptocurrencies. The only difference between facebook-coin and miles is that Facebook promises to encourage dealing in their coin and airline would frown on that. Not much difference otherwise. You have some tokens that you can exchange for things of value in some places.

> Your Bitcoin won't change in value or disappear because your country and another get in a fight

If one of them decides that banning bitcoin would serve their interests - it will get banned. You, of course, could work around it - as people do for centuries with drugs, guns and ideas proscribed by governments - but then you'd have to suffer the consequences when you're caught. Yes, when, because if you live in government's jurisdiction and they have interest in getting to you, they will.

[insulanus]

> Facebook promises to encourage dealing in their coin and airline would frown on that. Not much difference otherwise.

Not much difference except it is controlled by one of the most powerful, and richest companies on the planet, with the most data on everyone, ever compiled. That if you are a member, knows you likes, dislikes, politics, sexual preferences, entire social network, where you live, when you get home, where you go, whether or not your like your friends. That has a bigger market cap than the annual GDP of small countries, that competes in local marketplaces, could easily take on and possibly wipe out craigslist, ebay, and more, and could conceivably beat entire national currencies in capitalization, reserves, convenience, and ease of use, thus supplanting the currency of entire small nations.

Yeah, pretty much the same thing as airline miles.

[smsm42]

In your exercise in sarcasm you did almost everything except one thing - you somehow forgot to point out where the difference is. Yes, Facebook has a lot of data. And so? How that makes Facebook issuing crypto-tokens dangerous? If you consider the data volume Facebook has a problem, what does this have to do with the currency?

[daniel_iversen]

> There are lots of privately controlled currencies. Miles, points, certificates, game gold, etc.

Yes but these other currencies don’t have the possibility to be the most used and powerful currency for everything you do, and who knows what shape, direction and impact Libra will take/have over time once that Pandora’s box is opened!

[smsm42]

> Yes but these other currencies don’t have the possibility to be the most used and powerful currency for everything you do

Why not? There's possibility that everybody would start flying around so much that United airlines miles would be so valuable that people would volunteer to be beaten up just to get a chance for getting some. This is a very remote possibility, but nothing in the laws of nature or laws of men preclude it, so it's a possibility. Facebook currency, which doesn't even exist, has roughly the same chance to match this description as United miles. But somehow United miles is fine but Facebook currency is Pandora's box. Note that Bitcoin is not pandora's box, Ethereum is not, Monero is not, 9000 cryptos that nobody can even count, let alone track, is not, but most white collar, buttoned down, corporate vanilla safe cryptocurrency that have ever been proposed, the most soft target, which would be the easiest thing in the world to track and regulate ever in crypto history - that one is the Pandora box! How does it even make a little bit of sense to you?

[tripzilch]

> The only difference between facebook-coin and miles is that Facebook promises to encourage dealing in their coin and airline would frown on that. Not much difference otherwise.

I mean there is the tiny difference that one of these is the biggest social network megacorporation on the planet with the power and will to heavily influence a user base larger than France and Germany combined, but otherwise, yeah.

Nobody wants Facebook to have that power, even if they hadn't screwed over their users multiple times and seem to be devoid of scruples, they haven't even existed long enough to demonstrate deserving that kind of trust.

[afiori]

The difference is that those other are not meant to be used as a money replacement. In Pokemon Go there are coins and they are nothing but points to spend in store.

If I could transfer them to other player, become a certified shop that accept payment with them, or do any of the many other thing you can do with money that would be probably a legally grey area.

(moreover I am not sure how you would tax such a currency)

[squiggleblaz]

You don't tax currency, you tax transactions. And you tax transactions based on the value of the transaction. So if I sell a widget for either $10 or 0.01 BTC, and the tax rate is 10% of the value of the transaction, then I'll have to pay $1 in tax for either of the transactions. If I sell a widget for 0.01 BTC and no other amount, then we can establish the value of the widget from other sources, for instance, someone else might sell the widget for around $10 (implying that it the tax is around $1) or someone else might exchange 1 BTC for $2000 (implying a the tax is around $2). Naturally, if you put the decision of the tax into the hands of the government, they'll take the best rate for themselves. You can avoid this by pricing things in terms of the tax rate i.e. using the government's currency.

[smsm42]

> The difference is that those other are not meant to be used as a money replacement

That'd be a big surprise for me when I'll try to book my next flight with miles. I certainly thought they'd replace money.

> In Pokemon Go there are coins and they are nothing but points to spend in store.

That's literally definition of money - abstract points that you can spend in the store. Well, the definition of fiat money, to be precise, but we're not going back to gold doubloons anytime soon.

> that would be probably a legally grey area.

Transferring money to other person can certainly land you in legal gray area if it against the laws (money laundering, tax avoidance, fraud, etc.) So what's new here?

> (moreover I am not sure how you would tax such a currency)

The same way you tax any other goods. If you receive income, you are taxed on its value. You think if non-USD payments weren't taxed, nobody would have a bright idea to be paid is silver bullion? IRS is not stupid, you owe taxes on any income, and better believe it, if they don't know the exact value proving it to them will very soon become your problem, not theirs.

[afiori]

>> In Pokemon Go there are coins and they are nothing but points to spend in store.

>That's literally definition of money - abstract points that you can spend in the store.

Better move all my savings to pokécoins then, I am sure they can then be used for money replacement.

Jokes aside there are innumerable difference between real money and an in-game credit both from practical and legal viewpoint.

> That'd be a big surprise for me when I'll try to book my next flight with miles. I certainly thought they'd replace money.

Again credit with a company of a consortium is incomparable to money with a legal standing.

What libra tries to do here is to create a new worldwide concurrency that can in principle subsume most national currencies in the world (maybe except the dollar for technical reasons).

[lostjohnny]

You don't buy food with miles.

You win cookware sets.

The best you can do to convert them in money is to trade them, but to obtain them you still have to buy them or flight for real (proof of work IRL)

But there's no largest marketplace on earth, controlled by a single company, where you can spend them.

[anon1m0us]

But it could if some folks on the bitcoin team fight with others. Bitcoin is still controlled by humans and thus, not a replacement for traditional fiat currencies.

If you want a currency to be spent, it can't increase in value. That's the kind of thing you hold onto -- a store of value.