[bedhead]

I just returned from a three week RV trip to some of the national parks out west, including Death Valley. Two of the things I noticed were (1) Europeans outnumbered Americans in the RV parks and (2) Europeans seemed far more inclined to break the national park rules. At one point we were in a guided jeep tour in Canyonlands which is some seriously treacherous driving on cliffside switchbacks. An Escalade sped by us at one point and we were all like WTF these people are insane...it's a cliff!! We caught up to them at an overlook (the Thelma and Louise Overlook) and our guide got out to scold them. He came back and was like, "No surprise, they're Italian." He went on to explain that 90% of the issues they see with people acting recklessly were Europeans who didn't seem to comprehend how dangerous these places can be.

[sizzzzlerz]

I've been visiting Parks throughout the west for decades and have noticed the same thing. Its a virtual United Nations when you go into the Visitor's Center, gift shop, or restaurant. Personally, I think its great and love to show off what the US has that no other nation does. But, things like abusing the wildlife, putting themselves or others a risk because of stupid (and illegal) behaviors, and generally disrespecting the Park push me close to the edge. That kind of behavior isn't tolerated in the monuments and cathedrals in Europe; don't do it here.

[celticninja]

Well before you pay yourself on the back too much, we have similar issues with American tourists in Europe. Almost like assholes are noticeable everywhere and this is independent of their nationality.

[bedhead]

There were multiple times when we were either in a park visitor center or the RV park's pool and I realized I was the only American. It was all (in order) German, Dutch, and French. Everyone was really friendly and we made some good friends at the pools. But we kept noticing all the people doing dumb stuff at the national parks weren't Americans. Feeding squirrels, flying drones, climbing on stuff that wasn't safe, etc. It kinda became a running joke.

[ddrdrck_]

If as you said Americans are outnumbered by European people it is not very surprising that most people spot doing silly things are European and not American ...

[driverdan]

Most of the stupid things I've seen done in parks are by Americans. I encountered one European flying a drone in a national park. I told them the law and he stopped flying it and thanked me. That said I tend to avoid popular parks during tourist season because I hate crowds in outdoor places.

[radicalbyte]

I've spent a decent amount of time in the parks in South Africa and the people doing stupid and dangerous things were either American or Chinese.

The locals were well known for drink driving and driving too fast (they treat it like the British treat the Spanish islands and Amsterdam).

[ceejayoz]

In fairness, Italians have a reputation for driving dangerously when they know the territory, too.

[donretag]

I remember being 18, in Italy, driving my crappy Fiat as fast as I can down an Italian highway. Fifth gear, gas pedal to the max. And I was still getting passed by faster cars. Italians just drive faster. :)

[davidw]

This kind of road is reasonably common in Italy:

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.8513921,11.3773108,3a,75y,24...

I'm not ashamed to admit that it scared the crap out of me, and my wife (who I completely trust) was driving.

[donretag]

What's wrong with that road? Seems just like your standard mountain pass road to me. :) Those switchbacks are tight, so trucks are probably not allowed on that road.

I lived somewhat close to there, but not close enough to know that exact area. I am now an avid road cyclist that loves to do big climbs. That road is not even that bad https://veloviewer.com/segments/4090708

I do similar climbs here in California.

[davidw]

It's super tight and super cliffy, and it would be excellent on a road bike if you don't mind heights. I do, though.

I don't think I've seen anything in California quite that sketchy. Maybe this one because it's really narrow:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8803894,-120.2966256,3a,90y,...

That would also make for a great ride.

[Someone]

”Europeans outnumbered Americans in the RV parks”

I don’t find that _that_ surprising.

Air travel is dirt-cheap, there are more Europeans than Americans (taking the relatively richer north: Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, and the UK combined already have 295M. That doesn’t include the 60M Italians, 45M Spaniards, 38M Poles, 10M Portuguese, etc.), Europeans have more holidays, and many of them cannot run out of sick days, so that they don’t have to use their holidays when sick.

I also would _guess_ the lower wealth inequality makes more European than American pensioners wealthy enough to make such a trip.

That’s offset by Americans having a higher average income than Europeans (but income inequality being higher, it wouldn’t surprise me if more Europeans can afford to make the journey), and those parks being closer to where American live than to where Europeans live (but the USA being large and air travel being cheap, I doubt that matters much)

[kpennell]

yep, confirming all my biases here.