[lukasLansky]

Kubernetes is our one shot at having the universal vendor-neutral cluster interface. The fact that it's time consuming to do simple things directly against it doesn't surprise me in the same way I'm not surprised that writing todo app directly against POSIX abstraction would be time consuming. It's a great way to learn how these interfaces work though.

[arethuza]

"todo app directly against POSIX abstraction"

After trying a few cloud based ToDo applications with mobile apps etc. I gave up and started using org mode files from a text editor.

[asdfman123]

Question: why hasn't someone come up with a simple interface that abstracts away the tricky bits if you just want to deploy a blog?

I think MS is trying to make tools like this for the C# world, but I haven't seen them yet.

[lukasLansky]

Knative[0] pushes in that direction from the side of "complicated" Kubernetes. It's still far away from easy, but I expect that the solution will look like this -- a software that uses Kubernetes base to provide high-level primitives. Helpful cloud provider will give you a cluster with such thing already installed, as Google already does for Knative with the Cloud Run offering.

Microsoft allows you to publish a web application from Visual Studio project to Azure.[1] It's very simple, but more much opinionated. It's a great trade-off for an individual developer who needs to focus on functionality. In the context of this discussion, there's an important distinction -- it's not an interface, it's just a feature. It's tightly coupled to Azure from one side and to Microsoft dev stack from the other.

[0] https://knative.dev/ [1] https://tutorials.visualstudio.com/aspnet-azure/publish

[asdfman123]

Oh yeah, as a C# developer I definitely am familiar with app services.

But many organizations would rather not directly pay the costs of app services and instead indirectly pay the costs by making their developers tool around with Kubernetes.

[root_axis]

"Deploying a blog" is already trivial with existing technology. You don't need complex infrastructure tooling for a blog.

[xtagon]

The simplest technique for a blog, IMO, is using a static site generator. Deploying static assets is simple, and you have your pick of generators/languages.

[madhadron]

> writing todo app directly against POSIX abstraction would be time consuming.

That actually wouldn't be bad, and probably faster than getting it running on Kubernetes.

[lone_haxx0r]

> todo app directly against POSIX abstraction

So, a text editor?

[geggam]

but it isnt vendor neutral because you have to setup the k8s cluster differently in each cloud

[013a]

https://cluster-api.sigs.k8s.io/

[geggam]

Quick read didnt show Azure or GCP cluster creates. Did I miss that ?

[013a]

They're not included in the base binary, and are instead provided as plugins. You can find a list of them here [1]; they've got AWS, Azure, GCP, DigitalOcean, vSphere, Docker, OpenStack, maybe a couple others.

[1] https://github.com/kubernetes-sigs?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=cluster-...

[geggam]

At what point down the rabbit hole of abstraction do we pull back and look at the complexity required to do simple things ?