[p_nathan]

Regarding the WSJ essay - my perspective is that what Chua's kids are going through is barbaric and will not generate well-educated, Renaissance-esque people.

There is tremendous value in learning and discipline, and my observation of American schools makes me think that American schools are pretty weaksauce in the discipline and focus department. I don't think anyone out there denies that.

To pick at a particular example of Chua - music. I am better-suited than some others to look at this, since I myself - and my sister - spent time learning music as children and into our college years.

Mrs Chua! Your kids do well in violin and piano. And only violin and piano. Why violin and piano? Is the trumpet - a fine instrument! - beneath them? Or the viola, an underappreciated sibling to the violin? Perhaps it was simply too blue-collar to consider such an instrument as the guitar and its fine heritage in baroque European works. Or perhaps your children's true ability would have been in the drums. But, no, alas. It was the high-brow, well-respected violin and piano you chose for them. How simple it is to say, "ah, these are the respected instruments, the instruments bringing good face to us". Mrs. Chua, you have deeply restricted your children's musical activities. You really should not have done that. There is no call to regulate and legislate play like that. You should have let them explore their own mind, their own heart. They are Human beings too, and their perspective should be taken into account for their play. If they sought after being a professional musician, then there would have been time for focus, and much of it. Focus is the hallmark of a professional! But play is something else.

[gruseom]

Or the viola, an underappreciated sibling to the violin?

Thank you! I consider it the great mistake of Western music that the exquisitely-toned viola lost out to the squeaky fiddle. The Russians got it right: they call the violin skripka, which is exactly how it sounds, halfway between screeching and scraping. I actually have trouble listening to orchestral music because of this. That high-pitched squeaking gets in the way. It's as if the leading wind instrument had been the piccolo.

Fully agree about barbaric parenting practices as well. :)

[nocman]

I'd like to know more specifically the choice of acceptable instruments. My observation is that the choices of piano and violin are not limited to Asian families (at least, not in the US). There seems to be a link between people who wish to foster academic excellence in their children, and the choice to have them play piano and/or violin. I'd be interested to know if anyone here has any insights as to why those particular instruments are chosen, and I'd be even more interested to know why other instruments would be strictly excluded (whether by Asian parents or those of other heritage).

Personally, I think it is a good idea to have kids learn piano for at least a couple of reasons. First, I think the visual layout of a piano can help attach a physical understanding to the concept of intervals and chords (specifically the distance between notes, and the clustering of notes in specific patterns to form chords). For me personally, I think that was a benefit, even though I play piano very little, and not very well. Secondly, I don't recall ever meeting an adult who took lessons as a child for any length of time (and then quit) who as an adult does not wish they had continued. Now surely there will be at least 7 people on HN who will now speak up, inform me that they hated lessons as a child, happily quit when they were able and never regretted it for a second. But unless my memory is failing me, that must mean we've never met (or at least we've never discussed piano lessons), and thus my statement still stands :-D To that I will add, that even with a number of "I quit and I'm glad" entries, I still think the majority of the adults in question wish they hadn't quit.

Oh, and a third reason to play piano: they make nice weighted, touch-sensitive keybords now that do a pretty decent job of mimicking the feel of a real piano (at least close enough for me), and you can move them from room to room and house to house by yourself. (You won't have to get 3 to 5 of your soon to be ex-best friends to help you). We sold our old upright piano about 3 moves ago, and I've been celebrating the sale ever since :-D

[cwp]

I think klenwell has at least part of the answer:

Chua probably believes that its her strictness and strong principles that are leading her children to excel. And these have their role, no doubt. But I would propose, following Harris, it is her oppressive control of their social lives which is the much stronger factor.

Piano and violin are commonly played in isolation! This supports the Chinese parenting style in several ways:

• You don't have to practice with other musicians. Sure, a dedicated trumpeter spends a lot of time playing scales by himself, but to actually perform, you typically need to be in a band, orchestra, quartet or whatever. This means practicing as a group, and introduces opportunities for social interaction which might undermine parental control.

• Soloists don't have to share their glory. From what I can see, the Chinese drive to push their children to succeed has a lot to do with the way a successful child reflects on the parent. Shared success doesn't help the parent compete with other parents.

• It allows the parent to control the material. An awful lot of music is fundamentally rebellious, and the last thing a Chinese parent wants is their child learning jazz or rock or reggae and thinking about what it means.

I fact, I have to wonder if the point of pushing music so hard is to soak up the child's spare time, with an activity that leaves no time for a social life.

[stuartk]

Did a quick search and found this:

http://www.asian-central.com/stuffasianpeoplelike/2008/03/17...

Essentially, they are seen as the most 'refined' instruments to learn and play.

The piano is chosen as you need to learn both treble and bass clef to play, the violin because they are portable and light enough for very young children to hold.

From tfa.

[nocman]

OK, well that might explain the Asian preference. But I'd like to hear from a source that is not explicitly Asian (since I've seen the same choices in many non-Asian groups).

[tarkin2]

A Nature article suggests it's music training in general with regard to verbal memory: "...adults who received music training before the age of 12 have a better memory for spoken words than those who did not. Music training in childhood may therefore have long-term positive effects on verbal memory." http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v396/n6707/abs/396128a0... I do wonder if the same effect would result with any memory-intensive task. Reading and playing music would have to be one of the most intensive and enjoyable, however.

[p_nathan]

Piano has assorted benefits, sure. But I'm not convinced that it's worth making a major investment into unless you're focused on being a professional musician.

[msluyter]

To this I would add: if you want to be a good musician, generally, learning piano is very helpful. You'll absorb a lot of music theory (harmony) by osmosis. I found that quite helpful in my music theory and ear training courses in college. Beyond that, it's harmonically richer and more fun to play alone than a single line melody instrument, IMHO. (I say that as a former flutist who still plays the piano.)

[stdbrouw]

Let me be one of those seven. I started playing classical guitar at 8, quit at 10, picked it up again out of my own volition at 15, and I never ever regretted the five potential years of practice I've wasted.

* You learn most when you actually want to learn, so forcing kids into extracurricular activities can but often doesn't lead to greatness.

* It's very, very easy to neglect any unhappiness that would've followed from being forced to play an instrument, because all that unhappiness is in the past. It feels like a free lunch, but it really isn't.

[jtbigwoo]

The nice thing knowing how to play the violin, viola, or guitar is that you can carry them with you almost anywhere. The nice thing about knowing how to play the piano is there's a piano in every school, church, reception hall, etc.

[varjag]

Perhaps that explains why despite the armies of children drilled to play instruments, the Asian music and pop scene remains so atrociously bad.

[sethg]

http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/jokes/viola.html