[cpb]

In your experience, what is the strongest point of evidence leading to the successful utilization of k8s?

> the company has a marketing team driving new development that needs to get to market fast

At what point in the growth curve? Are your SRE shipping the new features, or running like a red queen to keep the product developers able to keep shipping?

What development process or cycle has overheated with friction that requires k8s? Where is that friction which k8s relieves?

[geggam]

:)

Successful utilization of k8s, interesting metric, what is your criteria ?

>At what point in the growth curve?

I have seen properly staffed startups (in silicon valley) leverage the platform to pivot direction fast but overall I would say you need a large enterprise to support it. Ironically the large enterprise which could benefit the most wants to lay ITIL on top of k8s, call it agile and the methodologies conflict creating more issues than they had.

> Are your SRE shipping the new features, or running like a red queen to keep the product developers able to keep shipping?

Yes to both

>What development process or cycle has overheated with friction that requires k8s?

Upgrading k8s :)

>Where is that friction which k8s relieves?

What k8s relieves is once you get a pipeline getting product to production fast, the approval process from legacy ITIL groups being the problem ( I have yet to see an enterprise company use k8s properly though I have been to presentations where some claim to have done this )

If someone attempts to use ITIL and k8s you are going to have problems. Training people to NOT do this is the #1 issue in my experience.

[cpb]

All my mentions of issues or friction in my previous comment was about pre-k8s team's experiences... I try and clarify a few key cases in the following:

> Successful utilization of k8s, interesting metric, what is your criteria ?

Sorry, what pain motivated using k8s, and using k8s relieved that pain.

> I have seen properly staffed startups (in silicon valley)

What is 'proper' for staffing?

>> Are your SRE shipping the new features, or running like a red queen to keep the product developers able to keep shipping? > Yes to both

Is it the appropriate use of a Reliability engineer's skills to develop or change arbitrary features? Or are you saying they are at least Engineers so they should be able to pitch in everywhere... CSS accessibility features or k8s config.

>> What development process or cycle has overheated with friction that requires k8s? > Upgrading k8s :)

This tautology keeps me away from k8s. Before k8s what pain in the process required using k8s to solve?

> a pipeline getting product to production fast

Does k8s make it fast? Does k8s make it possible? I think I'm deploying "fast", without k8s... But because you keep mentioning ITIL I suppose it's more about the infrastructure changes? Or are you talking about ITIL tension because k8s requires a more liberal policy than ITIL allows?

There is so much assumed context when talking about k8s, the only comprehensible part of these discussions is k8s is a rabbit hole to end all rabbit holes.

[snaky]

What I've learned from the comments above is k8s consulting business is the best thing since OOP. Just tell the marketing team you have a magic button that being installed will give them ability to change the course of business every 5 minutes by handwaving and a PowerPoint slide.

[geggam]

>Sorry, what pain motivated using k8s, and using k8s relieved that pain.

CTO / CIO / $SOME_C reads a blog and decides they want k8s is how it usually is introduced

> What is 'proper' for staffing?

Experienced C Developers who can do operations ( like google level SRE )

Summary of k8s : if you use the proper methodology to implement k8s and you are in a cloud framework you likely dont need k8s :)

What shines about k8s is it leverages the current container fad to ship code faster because devs like it. The current container fad pushes the burden of supporting buggy code to operations teams. IF the operations teams have issues they had better be highly skilled to figure them out

I have yet to see a company let requirements drive the choice to use k8s.