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by streetcat1 2486 days ago
Thanks again.

So more expensive is on a relative basis and taking into account the egress traffic from the cloud. My workload involve training machine learning models and serving them. Training on the cloud is 20X more expensive, and you cannot use commodity GPU (banned by Nivdia).

Moreover, My platform offer automl, which basically trade data scientist time for compute time. However, since I need to train 100's or 1000's of models, this can become very expensive, very fast.

Since I am not sure what my customers load will be like, I want to give them the option to move between clouds or on prem.

For the long term prospects of kubernetes. For me it is clear the kubernetes have found PMF and it is now at the first 1/4 or 1/3 of the S curve. IBM is all in, VMWARE is all in, Azure is all in, Gcp is all in.

Also, what are the alternatives ? Do you agree that containers are better than jar files or manual deployment options?. Do you agree that having a CI/CD pipelines with fully automatic unit/func tests is better than throwing code over the wall to some QA department?

So if containers are better packaging/deployment architecture, they need to be managed/monitored etc.

For micro services. In my case, the data since part is written in python, while the control plane (kubernetes operators) is written in go. So micro services are actually a very neat solution to a polygot product.

2 comments

I used to work at IBM and I have first-hand experience with exactly how wonderful (that smell is not the dog, that is sarcasm) their Kubernetes implementation is; without mincing words, I would consider IBM's enthusiastic adoption of k8s to be a warning sign rather than a positive indicator. VMware, ditto, they're a trailing-edge company flailing for modern relevance. Azure is a cloud provider so persistently awful that they and IBM are the only ones I'd refuse a client on because it's not worth the frustration; not sure I'd bet on their thinking, either. And GCP--sure, the people who made k8s like k8s, that stands to reason.

Containers are fine deployment tools, sure. And Fargate is a better management and monitoring framework than whatever you'll roll together, while also not making you pay overhead for hot-spare and failover inventory. (Their prices used to be really wacky; if you dig through HN you will find a post from the day Fargate was announced where I looked at the numbers and had some Questions. I do not anymore.) I get that you have GPU stuff to deal with, and maybe that doesn't work for you--but EC2 instances probably do, can be sized better, and can be dynamically scaled without breaking your back. Things you don't pay for are cheaper than things you do, you know?

On-premises--yeah, sure, use k8s, it's literally the only place where it makes any sense to do so. Of course, you could write good code with clear interfaces and separation of concerns so you can figure out an on-prem story after you have a product and after you have a business, but again, I too like rabbit-holing on stuff that doesn't help me ship. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Good luck, I guess.

> Training on the cloud is 20X more expensive, and you cannot use commodity GPU (banned by Nivdia).

Can you expand on this? What do you mean using commodity GPUs for training on the cloud is banned by Nvidia?

Can any person selling a product essentially make unilateral decisions with respect to usage of the product in question?

Its very curious. I'm reminded of about 6 years back when I sent an email to Randall Stephenson (AT&T CEO) asking why they feel they can charge extra for tethering after selling "unlimited data." I included a parable, naturally, describing a baker who sells you bread, with a license agreement stating you can only eat the bread by itself. If you want to make yourself a sandwich you need to pay an extra 16% fee when you buy the bread to be able to use it for any derivative product, such as sandwiches or bread pudding, or croutons, or anything beyond raw bread.

This is nonsense. I own the things I buy and even if the law tells me otherwise, I will never accept these insane premises.