[uuilly]

I used to work for Anthony at 510 systems. He tried to hire me for Otto as well. Watching this whole thing unfold from, obscure story in 2011 to the Waymo Vs. Uber trial to federal charges and national news is rather surreal. Anthony is one of the most creative, energetic thinkers I've ever encountered. If he stopped taking shortcuts he'd probably be the next Jobs or Musk.

[methehack]

That's tragic and awful. I think calling this a "shortcut" though is misleading, at least from what the times is reporting here.

It's one thing to own your own brain, it's another take 14K files, including circuit board designs and lidar designs. It's yet another to start using them at new-co that is a direct competitor to old-co. I'm by no means an IP fanatic, but that really does cross over to theft in my mind. But, on balance, the very specific details really matter here, so we'll see...

[magduf]

Taking PCB design files and using them at a competing company absolutely is IP theft. I'm honestly surprised anyone would think they could even get away with this; the old company just has to get their hands on one of the competitor's units and open it up and look at it.

[mcny]

> Taking PCB design files and using them at a competing company absolutely is IP theft. I'm honestly surprised anyone would think they could even get away with this; the old company just has to get their hands on one of the competitor's units and open it up and look at it.

I am not a Google employee but my understanding is that the biggest fear is not that Anthony Levandowski stole all the stuff but that Uber or another unscrupulous company would race ahead with inadequate self-driving causing a backlash that would bring down a legislative ban hammer on everyone, including Waymo. I think that is the real danger here.

Personally, I don't want Anthony Levandowski in prison. I just want him or people like him to not be able to work on self-driving cars.

I want self-driving cars to arrive and will gladly campaign to ban humans from being able to drive on public road when that day arrives.

[ZhuanXia]

Many of us do not believe IP is a legitimate property right.

[magduf]

Many people think the Earth is flat. What's your point?

[driven20]

Serious question open to anyone.

What is the line between "short cut" and "working smarter"?

It's not related to this post. Stealing is wrong. It just seems to me the line between being efficient and taking short cuts is really murky.

[random42]

It depends on which personal, professional, social, ethical and legal boundaries you are willing to cross.

Bribing a foreign government bureaucrat is a "short cut", but it crosses many lines, that are not ok.

Spamming users after buying their email address, cross fewer such boundaries, cause much less harm, and could be argued as "working smarter".

[bksenior]

Hah!

Jobs and Musk are walking shortcuts. Anthony's biggest mistake is that he got caught by a corporation motivated to pursue.

[paul7986]

A corporation (Google) who steals IP themselves. They steal from big fish to the little dreamers they inspired and such is well documented. See this popular HN thread... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18566929

I use to feel bad for Google and wanted this thief to face justice. But umm he's just doing what he witnessed and was taught(told) to do while working for the big G.

[cwkoss]

Also, Youtube facilitates IP trolls stealing revenue from creators on a massive scale.

[pslam]

I have no idea about this guy, but in my experience, people like this always seem to be pleasant, creative types on the outside. Every now and then in conversation they hold weird viewpoints you just can't reconcile with their projected image, and wonder if you've misjudged them.

They usually turn out to have an underlying wonky or absent moral compass, and abusive personality traits.

The outward image is a confidence trick, and that's how they got where they are.

[CalChris]

Lewandowski evidently was very creative. I don't think that's in any doubt. His Google Maps work is genius.

[chubbyrabbit]

I can tell from the goals he scored as well.

[monktastic1]

Former coworker of his here. As anyone who knew him well will attest, his favorite quote (from his favorite character) was "I drink your milkshake."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5d9BrLN5K4

There's more to say, but I'm not sure it's worth sharing on HN.

[coldtea]

>If he stopped taking shortcuts he'd probably be the next Jobs or Musk.

Didn't these ended up where they are by taking all kinds of shortcuts?

[ScottFree]

What shortcuts did they take? Maybe the key is knowing which shortcuts.

[microtherion]

A pretty big one was the options backdating scandal at Apple: https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/10/06/steve-jo...

[cbanek]

Ask the SEC.

[pb7]

Lame retort. Let's do better.

[TCR19]

"Good artists copy, Great artists steal" or something along those lines.

[paxys]

I feel like calling this a "shortcut" is putting it a bit mildly. He just got criminally indicted.

[AndrewBissell]

Musk will be the next Levandowski.

[dmix]

People have such an impetus for Musk's downfall but a few off colour or poorly thought out tweets is nothing compared to something as criminal as downloading everything from your company before starting a competitor. Or worse while you work on the competitor on the side even before leaving the company.

Anthony should have known that files are easily tracked in a place like Google and that he'd put a giant spotlight on himself by competing with Google's future golden goose.

[Judgmentality]

There are a lot more problems with Musk's conduct than a few tweets. Just yesterday there was a post on the front page of HN effectively accusing him of nepotism and saving his family's dying business and merging it with Tesla. There is still a lot of controversy over the marketing/state of Autopilot. There are whistle blowers claiming unsafe working conditions at Tesla and Musk censoring/firing anyone who is pro union. The list goes on.

I'm not saying Musk hasn't created some impressive companies or that he is bound to fail - but he is not without controversy.

[dmix]

What does that have to do with Anthony getting arrested? I wasn't comparing how controversial they are on Twitter.

So far the worst thing that has happened to Musk legally is some dropped SEC charges and new controls for one of his companies. The Solarcity deal isn't being investigated by authorities and was approved by 85% of shareholders in 2016, where its connection to his cousins was well known. Otherwise none of what you listed is illegal or in the same ballpark as what Anthony did.

[Judgmentality]

> People have such an impetus for Musk's downfall but a few off colour or poorly thought out tweets is nothing compared to...

I thought we were talking about questionable characteristics of these people and how it might lead to their downfall. I could easily see Elon Musk get sued for unsafe working conditions from years ago, or a fraudulent claim about Autopilot's capability, or for libel by attacking people unnecessarily on twitter (accusing a diver of being a pedophile is pretty fucking weird).

I remember talking to extremely well-paid lawyers in the industry before the Alphabet vs. Uber case saying there was nothing they could do to Levandowski. Let's circle back in 5 years and see how Musk is doing then.

[bduerst]

Yeah, Musk never stole competitor IP, so the comparison is a bit banal.

If anything, Musk's undoing will be how he has handled Tesla, such as his nepotist SolarCity acquisition.

[whatok]

I'm pretty sure people criticize Elon for more than just a few Tweets.

[TuringNYC]

From what I can see, Musk took tremendous risks with his wealth and time and is reaping rewards from it. It is one thing to be rewarded for your risks (good) — it is another thing to be rewards for other people’s risks and work.

[AndrewBissell]

All pretty pale in comparison to a faked $75 billion buyout tweeted out during market trading hours. Or the blatant self-dealing and faked product unveil used to push through the SolarCity bailout.