[ngngngng]

> we always struggled to get women from outside of Drupal to submit to that track, despite Drupal itself having a relatively large female population. We actively reached out to women both in the PHP community and local to the event and still sometimes had no submissions from women

^^ From the second link, blog post about a guy dropping out.

I'm so lost. So this guy drops out because the organizers won't go to great lengths to find women, and then admits that in his own experience it is sometimes completely impossible to find women speakers.

I think we're missing the forest for the trees here.

[lallysingh]

Great lengths? What "great lengths" were they asked to do here?

[shkkmo]

> Sadly from what the organizers told me they actively don't want to do outreach, and just let whoever wants to submit submit.

> If they had tried and were unsuccessful I'd be more forgiving, but you need to at least try. And when multiple speakers offer to work with you to reduce costs so that you can at least try, that should be taken seriously.

It sounds like he took issue with what he took as a complete lack of effort in trying to solicit submissions from women.

I think that is quite reasonable, especially since he went out of his way to frame this as a "way to improve" rather than a "reason to hate"

[hinkley]

I don't think anyone appreciates how goddamned difficult it is to run an organization, especially a volunteer one, well.

If you belong to a group, especially one that hosts events at least once a year, and you feel like it's run "adequately well", it's probably run better than 95% of the organizations out there. Head and shoulders above. You should take the time to thank the organizers for doing as well as they do. It's like being a member of the City Council, only you get paid even less (dollars or influence).

[shkkmo]

At least 2 of the presenters have direct experience doing exactly this, they appreciate how hard it is and they also offered to help.

[hinkley]

I think I tried to hard to make it short and sweet but lost a bit in translation. I'm not supporting their reaction but there aren't enough people out there crazy and skilled enough to run an annual event that pulls people in from hundreds of miles away. I belonged to such a group when I was too young to understand how much work it took for them to make it look easy. And I recall someone trying to replace the leader at some point.

What I have is sympathy for people who discover at the "last minute" that they have fucked up. It's never a situation I like being in, and it brings out better things in some people and worse things in others.

Uncle Bob started one of his presentations with a call out to notice the shortage of women in the room and an ask that people try to think about fixing that. I think a more productive approach for these presenters would be to say, "Look, I'm gonna present this year, but I'm gonna mention this in my presentation, and I'd like to help you figure this out for next year or this is the last time I'll be presenting with you." Nobody is on the spot, you have time to reason with people and appeal to their values instead of threatening them and their conference.

Daryl Davis doesn't get people to leave the KKK by issuing ultimatums. If a black blues musician can have a productive conversation with a Klan member we can have an adult conversation about representation in volunteer run tech conferences.

What kind of pisses me off about this SJW thing is that it's a lot of people who have only recently discovered that their world view is wrong and they are in what someone brilliantly called 'the asshole phase' of new understanding. Now they're punishing people for being a couple years behind them on the clue train.

My classmates decades ago were pointing out and volunteering to address these sorts of inequalities. One in the general case, the other in the specific case of CS degrees. None of this is even a little new and I have some pretty bad whiplash from the sudden uptick in activity and anger.

I love safe spaces. Some of the best, most at-ease times of my life have happened in someone else's safe space. I may not know everything about how they get built, but I know this for sure: You can't create them by threatening people.

[shkkmo]

You mentions "ultimatums" and "threats" and a lack of an "adult conversation", what is your basis for that?

The presenters who canceled their presentation didn't go out and say "nobody should go", they didn't accuse anyone of being sexist. They saw an issue and reached out privately first to address it. There organizers were unable to address it this year have said they would open a dialogue to address it.

Their response has been pretty darn level headed and non-acrimonious. What I don't understand is what they deserve the bilious language you are directing at them? It seems to me like you are having the exact type of knee-jerk reaction that you are accusing other people of.