[jiveturkey]

great reply to an overly cynical comment.

being able to push back is a luxury (unfortunately) that requires coming from a position of some power. that means that your colleagues support you, or that you are in a union.

where the GP is coming from is that mostly, this isn't the case.

[esotericn]

I've never had the support of my colleagues or unions for any action I've ever taken at work. Well, I mean silently they may approve I suppose, who knows.

If it's right do it.

You owe it to yourself and your fellow workers to put yourself in a position that makes this possible. If you can live on 10K a year then when you earn 20K you must save the surplus.

It doesn't make sense to be afraid of your manager unless you're on some sort of abusive visa or something. You know this is your one life, there's no replay button, you can do the things right now that you'll wish you did in ten years time?

[MaulingMonkey]

It serves the people in power to learn about delays beforehand - so they can plan around them - rather than being suprised by said delays at the last minute.

Some people live in denial. You do nobody any favors by encouraging their denial. Some people play stupid power and pressure games to ensure their employees aren't slacking. If you're already not slacking, you do nobody any favors by playing. Some people are between a rock (your estimates) and a hard place (their already agreed-upon deadlines). They're best served by a frank discussion of priorities, so you're hopefully slipping on the tertiary nice-to-haves, that they might even be able to negotiate away, rather than the core requirement they promised.

You don't necessairly need power to push back on unrealistic deadlines. What you might need power for, is to protect your weekends. But there's more forms of power than you've enumerated.

When there's a pattern of wanting my weekends, it's typically because they're trying to do too much with too few resources. What are they going to do - make things even worse, by spending more money to try and attract a replacement - and get less out of said replacement, until they get up to speed on the codebase - and maybe not get as much out of said replacement even then, if they're not quite as good as me at the specific thing I was doing? I'm a programmer living in a tech hub in the underpaid field of gamedev. I've got great BATNAs. I've got more options than they do. So do, I suspect, many/most "Software Developers" mentioned right in the subtitle of the article.

I'll work the occasional weekend once in a blue moon for something actually critical like a launch day. Management will often signal it's actually critical with commensurate compensation - time off, bonuses, or overtime pay. Or by not asking for my weekends in the first place until it's actually useful.

[jiveturkey]

> You don't necessairly need power to push back on unrealistic deadlines.

I'm sorry, but you do.

If the entire rest of your team accepts such nonsense, and you are the only one pushing back, you will soon find yourself out of a job.

[MaulingMonkey]

> If the entire rest of your team accepts such nonsense, and you are the only one pushing back, you will soon find yourself out of a job.

If a team keeps accepting such nonsense - and then keeps slipping on the deadlines as a result (they were unrealistic deadlines after all, right?) - they lose the trust and confidence of management, ruin marketing plans, and can find the entire team out of a job if things get dire enough.

And if you're bypassing your manager, making them look foolish, undermining them in the eyes of their boss - sure, they might fire you individually, in self defense, before you get them fired. Or if you're being a jerk in how you push back, because nobody wants to work with a jerk.

But I've been the only one voicing concerns more than once. Sometimes management is aware the deadlines are unrealistic - treating them as things to aspire to, rather than hard requirements to meet. Sometimes they didn't realize how much work they'd signed up for, and were able to negotiate to change requirements around for that deadline. Sometimes their hands were tied - but they at least appreciated the heads up, and we were able to get on the same page about priorities, and cut away as much of the unnecessary fluff as possible.

There's one occasion where I've probably gone a step too far. A ~50 person all hands, where we were given the choice of betting everything on a hard deadline - or taking a safer, less lucrative option. I answered in earnest, that I didn't think we would be able to hit the deadline. I was the only one to voice that concern.

I survived the first round of layoffs when my concerns proved right. I wouldn't have accepted the terms necessary to survive the second round of layoffs, so I suppose I did "soon" find myself out of a job... as did most of the rest of the company. Took some time off to relax when that happened... and when I was done with that, the first company I applied to matched my asking salary. Clearly I didn't raise it high enough!