[yowlingcat]

I don't know if I agree with your premises or conclusions. I think employers prefer engineers who are effective and have a past track record of success. For some companies, some of these are going to have a "can't rip my keyboard out of my hands" characteristic, but I've mostly found that working on software outside of work has minimal correlation with productivity.

Engineers that are steadily growing and continuing that professional growth may work on things outside of work. But they definitely ensure that whatever they do at work, in those 8 hours a day when they're on the job, is in large part contributing to that.

IMO, that's 99% of it. Engineering off the job or on a side project? It indicates a certain degree of intrinsic fascination. But if that's targeted in the wrong direction, it can result in someone being distracted and building the wrong thing really well. It varies.

[Lazare]

> I think employers prefer engineers who are effective and have a past track record of success.

I have talked to startup founders who were very explicit that they only hired developers who coded obsessively outside of work. One was very clear: If you didn't have a public Github profile showing a track record of frequent commits on personal project outside of work hours, you would not be hired at his firm.

> I've mostly found that working on software outside of work has minimal correlation with productivity.

Same. That doesn't mean everyone is hiring based on that.

[yowlingcat]

I understand that these kinds of firms and founders exist, but I think it's best to avoid them. If a founder prefers obsession over effectiveness, isn't that just the textbook way to start a firm that's at best dysfunctional and at worst a self-forced failure? I find these kinds of firms really unacceptable and an embarrassment to the industry.

[kwhitefoot]

> you would not be hired at his firm.

If they make that public it would be good, it would save me the bother of applying for a job with them.

[ryandrake]

While it would be nice of these companies to out themselves so we can avoid them, it’s usually pretty easy to read between the lines and spot them. Their job descriptions tend to have more red flags than a Chinese parade. I can spot a “you must have no life outside of work” job opening a mile away and avoid it.

[ghaff]

"We want passionate developers to join our family. We work hard and we play hard. Together. You'll be part of an exceptional team that won't slow down until we've changed the world."

How did I do?

[ryandrake]

You forgot to mention code ninjas but otherwise A+

[ghaff]

I hope they explicitly state that requirement in the job listing so as not to waste their time or potential job hunters' time.