[leetcrew]

ultimately the existence and degree of oppression is a factual matter. in general I agree that white dudes tend to have very little information that they can add to such a discussion. the way society is set up mostly precludes learning anything about it firsthand.

at the same time, I think your position is too absolute. to give you an example, I used to work in a small pizza place. one day a black dude came in and ordered eight slices of pizza. my coworker informed him that he was significantly overpaying and could save money by ordering a whole 16" pizza instead. the guy instantly flew off the handle: "you think I don't understand math?", "would you ask a white person that question?", "I didn't go to school for two years to be talked down to by the likes of you", etc. my coworker (a white dude) explained that, in fact, he asked everyone who ordered eight slices that question as it was store policy (it was) and that it had nothing to do with race.

as far as I understand it, racism was not happening in that situation. was it wrong of my coworker to point that out, or should he just have accepted that he didn't deserve a "seat at the table"? or am I wrong, and my coworker was being racist while treating this man exactly the same as all the other customers?

[bluntfang]

The answer is that it's not all about 'coworker', but understanding that the way society has treated black people and minorities has create a hostile environment. The reason why people don't want white men at the table is because they tend to make it personal and about themselves. There's a great episode of south park, the 'n word' episode [0], that kind of explains this. Stan exuberantly "gets it", by "not getting it".

[0] https://southpark.cc.com/clips/155500/stan-gets-it

[leetcrew]

like I said, I think I understand at a high level what people mean when they say white men shouldn't have or don't deserve a seat at the table. I certainly wouldn't presume to have a useful opinion on stuff like "how bad is racism today?". I also understand that the guy in the restaurant probably didn't just lose it because of that one isolated occurrence, and that his lived experience might very well justify the outburst.

what I'm trying to understand is what exactly "the table" is and what it means for a person to respect that they don't get a seat at it. should my coworker have just stood there and not defended himself? or should he have gone so far as to apologise for something he didn't understand or think he did? was making any attempt to defend himself or correct the perceived misunderstanding presuming to have a seat at "the table"? am I recentering the discussion around white men just by asking how he should have handled it?

I'll have a look at the video later, can't watch at work.

[bluntfang]

You're still kinda missing the point. It doesn't matter what your coworker did or didn't do. It's not about them. You bringing up that point again kinda proves that you shouldn't have a seat at "the table". What do we mean by "the table"? Usually it's an active voice in discussions on these things. Do everyone a favor and start listening to people. Really listen. Become empathetic. Don't try to fix things, because you don't understand the problem. Start understanding that you don't understand the problem.

It sure must suck to get yelled at by someone, especially when it's confusing or doesn't make sense. Want to know what's worse than getting yelled at? Getting shot by the authorities.

[leetcrew]

> You're still kinda missing the point.

tbh I'm starting to get the impression that you are deliberately sidestepping my question, but maybe I just haven't done a good job with phrasing it. all I'm really asking is whether the coworker in the story is taking a seat at "the table" by making any attempt to explain whatsoever.

[bluntfang]

your coworker is having a human interaction with another human. That's life. Sometimes people are upset. Sometimes they're upset about stuff that doesn't make sense. Sometimes you can calm them down by talking with them and sometimes you can't. The table doesn't happen in day to day interactions. The table exists to try and solve the issues that cause these day to day interactions to exist.

[badcede]

Everyone tends to make everything personal and about themselves.