[4ntonius8lock]

The really crazy thing is a small time blogger I know got fined thousands of dollars for not disclosing a product endorsement on her small time blog.

The FTC is up and active and enforcing the rules... on the smallest companies in the US.

Somehow in this country if I get a free meal at a restaurant, post about it and don't disclose the free meal, I'm a target. But bribing police is legal without disclosure to courts? I can pay 'experts' to testify in court without revealing I'm paying? Just when I though the corruption couldn't get any more entrenched, I keep finding new areas of deep rot.

[CocaKoala]

> I can pay 'experts' to testify in court without revealing I'm paying?

I feel like it's generally understood that when expert witnesses get called to the stand, they're being compensated for their time by whoever is calling them.

[4ntonius8lock]

> I feel like it's generally understood that when mommy blogger talks about a product on their blog, they're being compensated for their time by whoever is calling them.

I edited it for you to see if you agree that what's good for the geese should be good for the gander. If that logic won't fly for Mommy blogger with the FTC, why should it fly with expert witness? The stakes are WAY lower in one than in the other.

To be clear, I'm not supporting the idea of the FTC giving fines to anybody. But the idea of rule of law is that laws should apply to everyone, which is clearly not the case.

Your argument BTW, feels weird. Why would you bring up the idea of 'generally understood' when that can equally apply to the other side? To me it feels like one of those subtle defenses for the current system that don't actually spell out a defense, but tries to remove criticism with offhanded comments.

[CocaKoala]

Blogging is a hobby for many people; being an expert witness is not. Does every expert witness donate their time out of the goodness of their heart? They're experts; they have a career doing something. They're taking time out of that career to consult for the case and appear on the stand; why would you not think that time is compensated for?

Edit: I could see an argument that normal witnesses are not compensated for their time, and so a layperson might assume that an expert witness is not? But normal witnesses are appearing in their capacity as a witness; expert witnesses are appearing in their capacity as an expert. They're consultants; consultants get paid for consulting.

[4ntonius8lock]

> They're consultants; consultants get paid for consulting.

Bloggers... get paid for blogging. The issue, just like the expert witness, is by who. That is literally the whole point of disclosure for mommy bloggers, disclosing conflict of interests. Why not for witnesses?

Again, you keep putting out arguments that seem to be defending the current system without actually stating as much. If you feel the FTC should be as it is, then say so. These off handed contrarian comments with subtle defense of terrible things... is a kinda dishonest way to communicate.

I will say, you did spell out the rationalization of this. But a rationalization is just that: "the action of attempting to explain or justify behavior or an attitude with logical reasons, even if these are not appropriate.". Your logic can also be restated in a way that really highlights the issue I have:

People are not to assume someone in a commercial setting is getting compensated for endorsement. So therefore a disclosure is needed and strong enforcement.

People who are volunteering (jury) are to assume that things that happen in a non-commercial setting happen for money. Therefore, no disclosure is needed and no enforcement.

Also, the commercial setting has low stakes. The court setting has high stakes.

Which again, brings us back to: what's your point with these off handed comments?

Edit: Reading your other comments on this page, I think you didn't even read the article, which is why your comments are coming off so strange.

[CocaKoala]

> People who are volunteering (jury) are to assume that things that happen in a non-commercial setting happen for money.

What? Jurors aren't volunteers. Jury duty is mandatory; if you get called, you have to show up or provide justification for why you can't be a juror. If you get selected, you can't just say "no sorry, this case actually sounds boring and I'd rather not". Also, jurors get paid. They are volunteers in no sense of the word.

Court is generally considered to be a professional setting; I agree that it's non-commercial but I disagree that there are only two options where one is "commercial" and the other is "if you're getting paid you have to disclose it". Who would you think is paying an expert witness for their time, if not the person who wanted them to testify?

I legitimately do not understand why you feel like this is a conflict of interest.

[4ntonius8lock]

> I legitimately do not understand why you feel like this is a conflict of interest.

And you legitimately didn't read the article, so I'm legitimately not surprised you legitimately don't understand the conversation going on.

[cardiffspaceman]

In my experience as a juror at a criminal trial in California, it was not left to general understanding that the anti-DNA expert called by the defense was paid by the defense. The prosecution got it in right at the beginning of their cross exam. of the expert.

In the opening 'graphs of TFA the People should be paying experts, police officers and prosecutors, and the police and DAs should be deciding on the viability and priority of the case as they do for convenience store robberies etc.

Imagine if "Rich man" had a wife who was killed and a "Poor man" who he wanted to see convicted of the murder. Now you have police and DAs who are clearly on the take and the conviction can be funded by "Rich man". And "Rich man" can supply the "evidence" and the "experts" who explain it.

[CocaKoala]

I don't know what 'TFA' is, but you say that it says experts should be paid, so I don't understand what your argument is here.

The second scenario you describe is clearly corrupt, but I don't see how paying a consultant for their time is the objectionable part; when you stack that against a DA on the take, a police force on the take, and a rich man fabricating evidence, that all seems like a larger problem to me than "the rich man can pay an expert to testify about their expertise", especially given that the testimony of the expert witness can be challenged.

[astura]

>I don't know what 'TFA' is

TFA is "the fucking article."

It's derived from RTFA - "read the fucking article," something said when someone makes a comment that is addressed in the article. However "TFA" doesn't have the same rudeness that "RTFA" has and doesn't imply anyone didn't read the article.

[cardiffspaceman]

I think the original expansion was as you say, but some people think of it as "Fine article", which I personally do. I have read comments which said "OP" and meant the fine article, and other comments where "OP" meant some top-level comment. So it's nice to have a shorthand that hasn't been degraded in specificity.

[4ntonius8lock]

The second scenario is what you are commenting on. Literally. It's in the article.

For those of us that like to read and think and then comment, it can be frustrating talking with people who are just gratifying their ego by putting out words with no idea of what the topic even is.

[CocaKoala]

And you'll note that I said the second scenario is awful!

But paying a consultant to consult for you doesn't become a bad thing to do, even if you are a bad person.

Like, consider the opposite question: Why should expert witnesses, people who have absolutely no connection to a case beyond a level of expertise in some component of it, _not_ be compensated for the time it takes them to prepare their testimony? This isn't an employee of the city; imagine you're a construction foreman and you're asked to appear as a witness to describe your experiences on a typical job site.

Why should you not get paid for preparing and giving your testimony?

[4ntonius8lock]

No one said they shouldn't get paid.

By who is the question.

That's the whole point of the second scenario. And the article you are commenting on.

Why some people think that others want to hear their opinion of things they don't read is beyond me.

[FireBeyond]

Oh yes. Just the other week, the largest workplace immigration raid in history took place.

Seven factories owned by the same company. 680 individuals arrested for being undocumented - a misdemeanor, leaving aside all the other polarization of opinions on that.

It's a felony to (knowingly) employ someone without work authorization.

Not one supervisor, manager, or executive has been charged with anything in relation to these raids. And ICE has announced no plans to do so.