[lordCarbonFiber]

What gets me is the entitlement around OP's post. They're older so clearly they don't have time to brush up on DS and algos. That rubs me the wrong way, as some one who transisitioned in to CS from another field and worked on learning that stuff. Yeah the signal is mostly on how many hoops you'll jump through and base analytic ability, but everyone has to do it and expecting a free pass just because you're old pisses me off.

I think the previous generation is so used to the idea of "pay your dues and skip ahead" popularized by their parents that even the idea that a fresh grad might work harder and be a better fit destroys their whole world view.

I've known plenty of talented engineers of all ages; they all can crush a white board interview; just because OP doesn't want to doesn't imply discrimination (or at least unlawful discrimination).

[ziddoap]

>they don't have time to brush up on DS and algos

The problem with the whiteboard trivia questions at hand is that they are trivia. They are deliberately obscure, or presented in a trick way. Brushing up on all the data structures and algorithms in the world and how those might be twisted into some 30-minute problem doesn't seem to be an effective use of time.

The fact that you somehow have an incredibly talented pool of friends that can crush any whiteboard interview thrown there way does not really represent most people - given by the fact that whiteboard CS trivia is a common topic, written about (negatively) by a number of talented professionals.

[lordCarbonFiber]

There's a selection bias there. Few people will write, and even fewer would read, a blog post about showing up and doing well on an interview (and most companies generally don't want you posting direct answers to the process). It is true that many positions are trying to find people with more ability than is required for the position, but are you arguing that the interview process should select most people?

Further more, there's a breakdown between pure trivia (problems that either just require knowing raw data or can't easily be solved from first principles) and "all white board problems". In my experience the people that take to the internet to complain weren't asked to verify a linked list isn't cyclical or write a topographic sort for a given graph; they were asked to traverse a binary tree or print Fizz Buzz.

[ziddoap]

>There's a selection bias there.

You're right, that is true.

>but are you arguing that the interview process should select most people?

Not by any means. Just that when possible, and to the extent possible, interviews should select using the least-bias methods available and to select the most applicable candidate for the position. Not the candidate that had the best recall memory of obscure problems after spending a few months studying from some "beat the whiteboard interview" website.

I have no problem with whiteboard problems in general. It's a very specific subset of whiteboard problems that are used as a be-all-end-all, and are solving problems which will never be encountered in the position. These are they type of questions all of my comments have been regarding - not the whiteboard questions that demonstrate knowledge that will be used within the course of the job, or obscure questions where you are graded on the how rather than if you memorized the correct answer.

[lordCarbonFiber]

Im going to be biased by my experience, but, I've only encountered one problem i'd consider explicitly trick trivia (and it wasn't on the white board, it was one of these "solve this problem on hacker rank to get an interview" type of deals so maybe I was being naive and you were supposed to look it up).

Overwhelmingly problems, especially outside of FANG or hedge fund types (which I'd argue can actually use algo exp) align much closer to Fizz Buzz in difficulty. What I have seen, is supposedly senior candidates completely fail at those problems and be pretty arrogant at the fact. If you can't write a for loop or traverse a tree and print the nodes, etc I don't really care how many years you've been employed you're not a good fit. I wish we didnt' have to ask senior people to white board fizz buzz, but if you don't have a network willing to stick a neck out it just has to be done.

This may be a metro thing; NYC is a different make up than SF. Here at the very least, I've far more entitled unqualified people with no qualifications other than they got their first job when all you need to know to be a programmer was html and failed upward on a mountain of bullshit ever sense than I have seen qualified people choke at the whiteboard.