[checktheorder]

Modern nation-states are perfectly capable of dealing with climate change issues. They're the only entities with the power to properly do so. The problem lies in industry-bought politicians preventing those nation-states from enacting effective policies.

[bryanlarsen]

Because of the free-rider problem, dealing with it requires international cooperation between those nation-states. Which is possible, but difficult.

William Nordhaus' Nobel prize winning proposal would make that easier: https://issues.org/climate-clubs-to-overcome-free-riding/

[munk-a]

Honestly, too bad. Even if some countries might fail to contribute their fair share action just needs to be taken.

If folks can get an equitable system working then that's great - otherwise I expect the US, India and China to bear the vast majority of the cost since those three nations all have an immense amount to lose if global warming gets more extreme.

Both India and China are in extremely weather sensitive areas with large populations and a government that would be unable to cope if food shortages became a thing and economic instability happened. America just doesn't want the hassle of being the golden egg if food shortages break down, it'll probably fair pretty well for quite some time, but the 40% of Americans that are obese will be poorly situated to survive in extreme weather events.

[bryanlarsen]

You're right. The standard comment I hear is "Why should we do anything, China isn't doing anything and it's bigger than us"

My response is:

1. China is doing stuff. Not enough perhaps, but arguably more than we are. 2. Who are we to say anything? Canada has the highest per capita emissions in the world. If anybody should be first, shouldn't it be us?

But the free riding problem is still real. "Climate clubs" would completely demolish the "but China" problem.

[clarkmoody]

> entities with the power

You assume that it will require power (read: coercion & violence) in order to deal with climate change.

For a few hundred years we've had an ever-growing state in most places in the world, reaching levels of power undreamed of by rulers of the past. Yet climate problems persist with no sign of stopping. Relying on the current political order will not result in anything different. All nations exist in a state of anarchy with respect to one another.

So we're at a crossroads: do we empower global government to control the entire population, in order to address climate problems? Or do we admit that government cannot solve the problem and look to more imaginative -- and less violent -- solutions?

I for one don't expect that global government will work out quite like its proponents envision. Is anyone fit to be King of the Earth?

[adrianN]

What solutions do you propose? I don't really believe that we can solve tragedy of the commons style problems without governments, but I'm open to hear your arguments.