[tom_mellior]

> There was no property-owning democracy. Everyone was dependent on the will of the landowners and the owners of the houses in Paris. In that particular context, he really took on the most powerful social group at that time, trying to offer a solution to urban problems

As someone who has had to rent in the horrible Paris market, I don't see how everyone being "dependent on the will of the landowners and the owners of the houses in Paris" has changed.

[mijamo]

Where else have you rented? Paris is a bit expensive but apart from that the rental market works fine. I wouldn't say the same of Stockholm, Dublin or San Francisco

[tom_mellior]

> Where else have you rented?

I didn't come here for a who-is-more-cosmopolitan dick-waving contest. But if you did, do feel free to entertain us with your personal horror stories from Stockholm, Dublin, and San Francisco.

> Paris is a bit expensive but apart from that the rental market works fine.

Landlords require you to bring a CV and a work contract and proof of income, which must be 3x the rent, otherwise you must bring documentation from a guarantor who does have that much and who is resident in France. You must also bring receipts proving that you paid your rent on time the last three months. (Sure, this is not a big deal per se, except that other countries don't even have this kind of receipt, or you might be coming from some arrangement where you did not (officially) pay rent.) Don't you also have to bring a valid renter's insurance policy? There was almost certainly other stuff I forgot; I remember seeing people at viewings with bunches of paper centimeters thick. Some of this is difficult (read: impossible) for someone just moving to France.

If you don't have these documents, they could be nice and welcoming and try to accommodate you. Or they could just pick one of the 20 people who showed up to the same viewing and who did bring 100 pages of crap. In my limited experience, they do the latter. Overall, "fine" isn't the word I'd choose to describe this.

> I wouldn't say the same of Stockholm, Dublin or San Francisco

"X isn't quite as shitty as San Francisco" is faint praise indeed.

[notJim]

Other than the receipt thing, this sounds the same as anywhere I've rented… I agree it's a shitty system all around, but I don't think any of it is unique to Paris.

[tom_mellior]

Oh, sure, it's not unique, but it's not a sign of a particularly healthy market.

For our current apartment in another EU capital my partner and I were asked informally what we did for a living. I mentioned my income, but I think it was without being asked explicitly. I was prepared to show my work contract as proof, but they never asked. Those were all the required "formalities" before we were given the contract to sign.

Rents around here are rising at a rate of something like 7% per year, so it's not like there's too much housing, but it's not quite as constrained as elsewhere.