[londons_explore]

The solution doesn't have to be at the phone network level either.

It would be easy enough for a regulator to simply fine any company whose products are advertised or sold through telemarketing.

Make it the companies problem that some of their marketing contractors or affiliate schemes lead to illegal calling.

[rahimnathwani]

How would that work? Specifically:

- which regulator has the power to fine a company when it didn't do anything wrong?

- how would you prevent abuse, e.g. if I want to destroy your small business, I can just spend a few thousand dollars on a robocall campaign selling your products (not even claiming to be you)

[paulie_a]

How would that work for you? You would end up in prison.

[rahimnathwani]

The solution proposed (fine the product manufacturer) is a response to the difficulty of identifying those behind robocalling/telemarketing.

That same difficulty would arise when trying to identify those abusing the process in the way I described.

[paulie_a]

There is no difficulty in detection

There is a lack of will

[rahimnathwani]

If there is no difficulty in detection, then there is no need to go after a proxy (the product manufacturers) instead of the perpetrators (the telemarketing companies).

[paulie_a]

Everyone knowingly involved should go to prison. I thought I made that clear

[JumpCrisscross]

> It would be easy enough for a regulator to simply fine any company whose products are advertised or sold through telemarketing

Small fines, for the issuer of the number used to make calls reported by more than N consumers, should do the trick. Small to accommodate false positives. Fine to create an incentive to vet before issuing numbers. Number issuers because they’re less numerous and clearly in the FCC’s jurisdiction.

If one wanted larger fines, N could be lowered but only count complaints with a recording of the call and proof it came from that number (e.g. a telephone bill). Harder to make a complaint, but also harder to turn the mechanism into a home for general grievances.

[closeparen]

In business telephony, issued numbers have nothing to do with outbound transit. You just have a bundle of circuits/capacity that signal source and destination numbers on a per call basis, inbound and outbound. There’s no requirement that the caller ID you send is one of the numbers routed to your trunk by that provider. A branch office could accept calls only through an extension on the enterprise VoIP network, while still placing outbound calls on a local provider and sending the main headquarters number as caller ID.

[markovbot]

I believe this discussion referral to a theoretical world after STIR/SHAKEN has been implemented globally

[pixelbath]

How would this curb the scam calls that aren't interested in selling you a product?

[cestith]

You know those people who say they're with Microsoft and they want to use RDP to troubleshoot your Windows installation proactively? They're not actually affiliated with Microsoft, as shocking as that may sound. Neither are the 0% credit card folks who call repeatedly from "Visamastercard" affiliated with any bank or credit card company.

[LorenPechtel]

Telemarket your competition.

[msla]

It would also be easy enough for the organization to budget for fines or to have numerous front/shell organizations which get started, do the calls and take the money, and then don't exist when the regulators come around. We need jail time for the executives.

[paulie_a]

Forget fines. Everyone in the company needs to be charged with felonies under Rico

Spoofing numbers could be considered a criminal organization

Take down every single person

[yjftsjthsd-h]

That's a little excessive. The janitor was told that they were a legitimate marketing org, and it's completely unreasonable to expect them to investigate enough to find otherwise.

[paulie_a]

No I stand by that statement. You knew you were in a scammer company.

Actions need to have consequences. But they currently have none

[yjftsjthsd-h]

Presumably, you work for a company that sells stuff. How familiar are you with your sales department and everything they do? Are you willing to go to jail if you're wrong?

[paulie_a]

I'm very familiar with their sales tactics and they are legal. They don't commit felonies on every single call. If I knowingly found out they were commiting crimes and did nothing I am guilty.

[gruez]

>Take down every single person

Management/c-suite? Sure. Your typical telemarketer working at minimum wage? No.

[ceejayoz]

> Your typical telemarketer working at minimum wage?

If they're claiming to be the IRS so they can scam you out of iTunes gift cards, why not? They know what they're a part of.

[paulie_a]

Yes absolutely everyone. Everyone that is on the phone. They get 10 years. They absolutely know what they are doing is illegal. Fuck those people.

[MichaelApproved]

Stop distributibg enforcement, it creates unnecessary redundancy. Enforcement should be concentrated.