[jamiequint]

They weren't "defrauding the drivers of tip money" they were normalizing the variance in payments across deliveries by not directly paying the drivers tips and instead guaranteeing a minimum payment amount which was above the delivery fee.

Once they modify their system and move to a system where drivers get 100% of the tips the drivers will probably see approximately the same payouts on average, just with higher variance across drivers. Basically what DoorDash was doing is the same as tip-pooling at a restaurant which isn't exactly a controversial practice.

[sanj]

Tip pooling makes sense because a restaurant experience is composed of the work of multiple players in the front/back of the house.

DoorDash drivers don’t rely on other drivers. So why should a good driver compensate for the poor tips of a bad one?

[Dylan16807]

Why do you expect bad delivery drivers to have poorer tips? I've never adjusted a tip based on the quality of the driver, because I can't measure that. Anyone can hand over a bag of food, so the only thing I see is how long they took. But whether they arrive quickly or slowly is probably the kitchen's fault, or luck of overlapping orders. Realistically, I have nothing to rate them on.

[ericmason]

Maybe because the tip has at least as much to do with the customer as it does the driver.

[milesskorpen]

There's not a lot of evidence that tips actually reliably vary in response to quality (easy to Google, but stuff like https://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?refe... ).

Tipping frequently matters more about the tippers mood, the tip-receiver's race and gender, and (of course) order size.

[jamiequint]

This isn't like restaurant tipping where bad service gets 10% and good service gets 25%+ It's mostly bi-modal, drivers frequently don't get tipped at all. In this scenario reducing variance makes sense because (as many other commenters here note) unless the experience is overwhelmingly bad the tip generally has more to do with the receiver of the order rather than the driver.

[aianus]

The entire point of the tipping system is to have a high variance. The promise, but not guarantee, of tips is what is supposed to incentivize better service.

[r1nkgrl]

But in the case of the DoorDash, if you tip using the app, you tip long before you know what the service will be.

It's like walking blindfolded into a restaurant and putting your tip in the hostesses hand before you even see any of the staff, or have any indication of service.

[aianus]

I see, I've never used DoorDash and assumed it was like Uber and UberEats where you tip afterwards.

That's a pretty silly system.

[chipotle_coyote]

That's true, although to be fair, there's only so much a delivery driver can do service-wise compared to a waiter. Your only interaction with the driver is picking up the order. The driver isn't responsible for the time the restaurant takes to get the food to them, and isn't even entirely responsible for the time it takes to get the food from the restaurant to you -- there's traffic, weather, and the possibility that DoorDash demands they batch orders (something I've heard but haven't confirmed). I'm not sure it's fair to hold a third-party delivery driver responsible for the correctness of the order, either, rather than the restaurant.

[dtparr]

It seems like what you're arguing is that delivery drivers should not be a tipped class, but instead just guaranteed a higher rate.

[chipotle_coyote]

Well, my actual thought was more that adjusting tips based on perceived delivery driver performance is somewhat unfair based on all the things beyond the driver's control. (I'm not sure if the downvotes I got are from people who think I was arguing "never tip drivers" and are mad because they think I'm a jerk, or people who realized I was more arguing "don't undertip drivers" and are mad because they think I'm saying undertippers are jerks, and fair, I am.)

Anyway, yes, actually: I think there's a good argument to be made for a higher wage for delivery drivers -- and all waitstaff -- that makes their earnings less dependent on tips. If people want to tip for exceptional service, that's fine, but there are a surprising number of people who treat tips today as if they're only for exceptional service, will cut tips in half or even to zero for things beyond the server's control (e.g., the restaurant will not accept your clearly expired coupon), etc.

[cgriswald]

I entirely disagree.

Things a dasher is responsible for:

1. The correctness of the order. Yes, it's fair to hold them responsible for this, because they have the order and they are at the restaurant. If the order is wrong, they can easily correct it then. If it's wrong at my house, now what? Probably I'm unhappy, even after Door Dash offers me credits

2. Keeping the food in good shape. That includes heat (some dashers use a heat bag), but it also includes keeping soup, chili cheese fries, and other things upright. (All things some dashers have screwed up for me.)

3. Paying attention to notes. I eat my Taco Bell with diablo sauce. Did he include the sauce I asked for in the notes? (Bonus points for including things like napkins and sporks without being asked.)

4. Polite behavior. Most are polite, but some practically throw the food at you and run away.