[boromisp]

A possible explanation for what you've experienced can be found in the just-world hypothesis [0], or in the belief that we live in a meritocracy. It is simply a foundational part of many people's worldview and nothing sort of experiencing similar traumas will make them reconsider.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

[throw0101a]

> A possible explanation for what you've experienced can be found in the just-world hypothesis [0]

As a sub-class of that, see also the Prosperity Gospel:

> Prosperity theology (sometimes referred to as the prosperity gospel, the health and wealth gospel, the gospel of success, or seed faith)[A] is a controversial religious belief among some Protestant Christians, who hold that financial blessing and physical well-being are always the will of God for them, and that faith, positive speech, and donations to religious causes will increase one's material wealth.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

The Book of Job of course is a good counter-example:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ip4Jx92F94

[Balgair]

Job is a fantastic piece of Hebrew literature and a great look at an important question in religion: Why does bad happen to good people? I'd be hard pressed to find a better look into it.

Unfortunately, the KJ and NIV translations of Job are, well, almost incomprehensible. You have to read it a few times before you begin to grok it. If you are interested, the CEB translation is a lot more accessible for first time readers: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+1&version=C...

[hutzlibu]

"The Book of Job of course is a good counter-example:"

Or Jesus saying about the rich:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"

Mark 10,25

[state_less]

"They claim their labours are to build a heaven yet their heaven is populated with horrors. Perhaps the world is not made. Perhaps nothing is made. A clock without a craftsman. It's too late. Always has been, always will be…too late." ― Alan Moore, Watchmen

Look to examples of people who give without expecting anything in return.

[blaser-waffle]

Sounds like Calvinism, but with bribery

[netsharc]

A good explanation on meritocracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTDGdKaMDhQ

TL;DW: if you believe the crap that hard work will make you successful (discounting luck), than you'd have to believe the opposite is true: that poor people are lazy.

[AstralStorm]

Only if you discount luck completely.

There are degrees of bad luck otherwise that nobody can surmount. As a simple example, do you consider a person bedridden due to a sickness lazy?

[hestipod]

I've found the sort of people who deny my experience, who blame me, ALWAYS discount how much luck has played in their own life and success. They all believe its entirely due to their effort and deserving. I used to try and convince them, now each time they respond this way it just takes one more notch out of my hope belt and there aren't many notches left.

[netsharc]

hestipod's response says what I mean... I remember reading an article saying that trust fund kids living in luxury can't live with themselves when they tell themselves their richness is due to luck, so they make up a reality where their success is due to hard work...

[habnds]

the just-world fallacy is a much more appropriate term.

> the cognitive bias (or assumption) that a person's actions are inherently inclined to bring morally fair and fitting consequences to that person

[pm90]

Too many wealthy Americans suffer from some version of this. If you are born to wealth and grow up in wealth I guess your viewpoint of the universe won’t be a very accurate one. The disproportionate power that wealth grants to you then becomes even more destructive.

[hestipod]

What I cannot understand is how so many who suffer or struggle themselves attack fellow victims of this. Punching sideways or down i disgusting but it seems people are always looking for someone to blame and feel better than. This entire experience made me a misanthrope in large. I cannot every discuss my experience without a large number of attacks. It's comforting in a small way to see its not the majority in an international audience, but the American audience and many interactions are very hostile to someone else's pain.

[marcus_holmes]

the whole "prosperity" thing in modern US christianity associates with this: that if you're a good christian then god will make you wealthy. So therefore poor people are by definition unworthy, and wealthy people deserve their wealth.

Note that this is in exact opposition to the wealth-heaven-camel-needle teaching in the bible. But that doesn't seem to matter. I'm sure there are interpretations that can make it go away.

[habnds]

for real, in addition, there's interesting research looking at how, punishing and exiling groups of people alters society's relationship with that group.

Stuff like harrassment, arrest, and enforcement actions against a specific group of people isn't the _result_ of prejudice, its frequenty the _cause_ of prejudice due to the just-cause fallacy.

[raxxorrax]

People like meritocracy because it simply appeals to the desire for fairness which luckily many people like very much. There is no further hypothesis needed to explain why some might like the idea. It doesn't have an inherit contradiction to a standpoint that the advancement of a society should be measured by how the weakest members are treated for example.

The hypothesis you linked can justify monarchies which meritocracy is intrinsically opposed to.

You can find inherent contradictions between freedom and equality for example, so a compromise is needed if you try to achieve both to a sufficient degree.

Social security has its dark sides in Europe and it isn't really clear what its future will look like with demographic problems. Is it better than the American model? I would enthusiastically say yes, but that is more due to corporate interest in medical fields in my opinion. Something the state might have difficulties to solve at this point.

But in many countries social security is in favor of older generations against younger ones. Still, it supplies aid where it is needed for now.

[simonh]

>..in many countries social security is in favor of older generations against younger ones...

Including in the US of course, in the form of Medicare. Which also disproportionately helps people already well off, because they survive longer and so benefit from it for longer.

[hestipod]

This is absolutely the case and no matter how many times I have tried to explain it to the people here they will not accept it. As you said...they have to suffer it to believe it...and that is too late for me. You either have empathy or you do not. If the only way you can feel it is to suffer yourself and then care since it affects you, then you will go through life denying others.