[DanielBMarkham]

This board is supposed to have started as a place for hackers to hang out and talk about startup and hacker stuff. Most times, startups don't pan out. The odds are against you, the culture is against you, the only thing you have going for yourself is your ability to dig in and keep going.

Why would we express negativity and criticism for what somebody else considers valuable enough to do? Caution, honest critique, our own experiences, encouragement? Sure. Even tell folks they are smoking crack if that's what you think -- just do it like you would to a friend, not like you're hiding behind a wall of internet anonymity and trying to see how snarky you can be.

I'm the first person to tell people I think what they are saying is messed up. Hopefully I do so by asking them to explain themselves, rather than trying to beat them down with words and then climb on top as the victor. That kind of behavior is petty juvenile bullshit and lowers the conversation and board quality overall.

We're supposed to be helping each other, not proving who can make the cutest joke, snarkiest comment, or most glib putdown.

If the conversation becomes whether somebody is "worthy" enough to do X, you can count me out.

[alnayyir]

I'm sorry, what has Sebastian hacked on lately?

Lets look at a list of recent subjects on his blog.

Letter: Gaming and Reading

Letter: New Year’s Resolutions

The Neurosis of Long Term Habit Change

Comment: “The Last Blow to Human Hegemony”

A Transformative Power of Perspective

On Improving When Your Friends Aren’t

Unorthodox Strategies for Winning

Comment: “There is more to it than just the choice of whether to ship. There is also whether you even get something ship-worthy made.”

Some Side Upgrades

Studying Patience

Twitter? Yes indeed

I don't think he's the kind of person we need to be worried about giving moral support.

We need to be encouraging productive people into doing more for themselves and their careers, not cheering on charlatans.

[steveklabnik]

Sebastian has given me personal advice that I consider incredibly valuable, and has changed my plans in the coming year.

Just saying.

Also, I take small issue with this:

> We need to be encouraging productive people into doing more for themselves and their careers,

That's pretty much what Sebastian does, isn't it?

[xiaoma]

>Sebastian has given me personal advice that I consider incredibly valuable, and has changed my plans in the coming year.

Was this advice on his blog or was it offline? If was offline in person, it doesn't really have anything to do with the utility of the blog. Hopefully, nobody is attacking Sebastian the person. Seeing as how the vocal defenders of the site know the person, maybe it's worth considering that Sebastian the person colors your view of sebastianmarshall.com. Possibly it's why you don't find it as obnoxious as so many others do.

[DanielBMarkham]

Hopefully, nobody is attacking Sebastian the person...

cheering on charlatans...

Kind of hard to call somebody a charlatan without attacking them as a person, isn't it?

[xiaoma]

That was a pretty clipped quotation. I didn't even see it as specific to Sebastian in my quick reading of alnayyir's comment. I suspect taking the entire sentence wouldn't have served your rhetorical purposes so well.

Setting aside that issue, I suppose the answer depends on your values. Obviously there's a connection. If you do terrible things online, you're probably not a great person. That said, I for one see it entirely possible for a blogger to be full of BS and false bravado when online, but a perfectly fine person in the real world. In fact, I don't think it's uncommon.

[DanielBMarkham]

Nobody is trying to win an argument here.

My take on this thread is that it is a personal attack on Sebastian. That's why I commented.

I don't know Sebastian (although we're "friends" on FB), I don't read his blog as much as some, and I have no interest in either defending him or protecting him. He's a big guy and can take care of himself.

But if you don't like a post -- don't upvote it. If you have a problem with a certain type of blog article -- complain about it in general terms. If you think there are charlatans among us eager to prey on the innocent, then say so -- but do it in a neutral manner. This isn't rocket science. This is just the basic skills of how to get along with other people.

You can tell a thread is off the rails the minute somebody starts talking personally about somebody else. It's a sign that they have a weak argument and are more interested in scoring points than making a critique. There's no happy ending: if folks come on and say the person is nice, others will accuse them of having a clique mentality. If others come on and agree, it's just some random internet mob lashing out for whatever reason -- not an attractive thing to watch.

So let's not do that, okay? If you're saying that all these comments and upvotes were actually people just objecting to the blog and not the person, then I believe you. I personally didn't take it that way at all, but I believe what you are saying to be true. All I ask is that you take a look at this from another viewpoint.

And I'm done here. I have no intention of kicking this can down the road any more. If you don't get it by now, you're not going to get it.

[steveklabnik]

I emailed him, thanking him for one of his blog posts though I found insightful.