[reitzensteinm]

Tesla has 11bn in debt, alongside other obligations like warranties.

If they can't make the car thing work, and their autopilot tech sells for as much as mobileye, shareholders are going to be wiped out in the event of liquidation.

How the cars are selling and what margins they're getting matters a great deal, even if you believe that the long term value comes from autopilot.

[nisten]

Looking at the competition, ford, VW, Mercedes. Their battery production numbers look pretty mediocre. Also their cars are less and less competitive in a rising carbon market.

[reitzensteinm]

You're making an argument that Tesla is going to sell cars. That's fine.

But previously you said delivery numbers don't matter because autopilot is valuable. That's what I was responding to and could not be more wrong.