[adrianN]

I don't think that's the case. I believe the problem is that large German companies tend to be hardware companies. They're used to development cycles that take years and extremely conservative in adopting new methods. Management and company culture is not used to dealing with fast changing development methods (where fast is anything that changes more often than once a decade). Rigid processes for compliance with external regulations over time where adopted for internal rules as well, making any change a bureaucratic nightmare.

Salary for developers really isn't that much of an issue. In Berlin for example a developer gets two or three times the median salary easily. That's enough for attracting people who are talented enough to choose, e.g. git and JIRA over whatever crusty system of shared folders and zip files or IBM crap you'd see for projects in many companies.

[kriro]

Pretty much agree with this sentiment regarding hardware/culture.

Also the salaries are acceptable (imo) compared to fairly high paying US jobs if you compare real working hours (vacation time, real 40h workweeks etc.). With a family there's even more benefits. Cost of living also tends to be fairly low (with a high quality of life) compared to higher paying places.

[TulliusCicero]

High paying American bigcorps mostly have perfectly fine work life balance.

Getting double the vacation time (6 weeks instead of 3) when I moved from the US to Germany was very nice, but going back I'll have 5 weeks, which isn't too bad.

[oblio]

> Getting double the vacation time (6 weeks instead of 3) when I moved from the US to Germany was very nice, but going back I'll have 5 weeks, which isn't too bad.

I keep hearing this. Yes, you will get 5 weeks. But what about your wife, your uncle, your friends? In Germany they're all guaranteed to have the same number of days off, access to healthcare, etc. When you have kids you have a bunch of weeks/months off before the child is born and more after.

In the US, as long as you're young, healthy, rich and selfish, life is grand :D

[tomp]

But that's the point of US, no? It's the best country for the best people. So, the best people go to the US... (well, many at least... I'm still holding out... for now, I value European way of life but I envy US political & legal systems, in particular their freedom of speech).

[oblio]

You can can't have 300 million best people. You can't even have 100 million.

And once someone acquires citizenship, their descendants can't lose it, provided it's their only citizenship.

[midgetjones]

This is the funniest thing I've ever read on HN

[TulliusCicero]

Nitpick: the number of vacation days in Germany does vary a bit, though by much less than in the US.

Agreed, I'd love it if all Americans were entitled to 5 or 6 weeks of vacation, plus the various other benefits that are standard in most of western Europe. Unfortunately, the GOP exists, so that's not happening anytime soon.

[odiroot]

> Salary for developers really isn't that much of an issue.

Yes, it absolutely is. And Berlin is the best example; we're even underpaid by German standards.

[srrr]

Many (senior) developers I know in Berlin get 80000€/year gross income. That is in the top 6% of incomes in Germany. (Top 6% income bracket in the USA would be 150000$/year.)

I don't even get 80k€/year and have a very luxurious and high quality life in Berlin.

Resource: https://wid.world/simulator/

[adventured]

The median software developer - out of nearly 1.3 million developers - in the US makes ~$107,000 per year for 2019. A senior developer should be up near $150,000 even outside the primary major tech cities. The top 10% tier of developers starts over $160,000.

[google2342]

New grads can start at 200K+ in the right companies.

[klyonrad]

You are using absolute numbers to make it look more extreme than it is. 107000$ are 94000€ at the moment. Considering the living cost in the USA, it might still be higher in the USA but not that extremely more

[adventured]

No, the numbers I quoted are correct. If they seem extreme, it's because they are compared to everybody else not named Switzerland. I'm using absolute numbers (what?) because those are the dollar wage figures directly from the BLS for software developers. Living costs in the US are not higher than in Germany. That is only true in the most expensive places like eg NYC, SF, Sea.

If you're in Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas or several dozen other major cities, cost of living is very reasonable in the US. Your healthcare costs are typically either entirely, or mostly covered by your employer if you're an engineer making $100k+. In Atlanta your all-in effective tax rate is under 30% at $110,000; in Dallas it's under 24%. What's the problem?

[hiram112]

In Germany, with an 80000€ salary, what would be the monthly take home in your pocket? And I'm assuming they would take out taxes for health system, pension, vacation, etc.

In the US in an average taxed state, compare a $150K salary: After federal and state taxes, our old person medical and retirement (i.e. FICA), maximum retirement investment of about $19K, health insurance, disability insurance, dental, etc, one will end up with about $7200 a month or $86K / year in their pocket, which is roughly 42% taxes and retirement. This includes 3 weeks of vacation and 10 Federal holidays.

[srrr]

80k€ would net you between 40-50k€ after all taxes, health insurances and a basic retirement fund. The exact number depends on you having a family or not and many other factors.

In addition your employer pays an amount equal to about 10-15% of your gross salary into your health and retirement insurance. And this pay is on top of your salary. (Arbeitgeberanteil)

Holiday is always included with a minimum of 21 days a year for a full time job. And Germany has paid parental leave included if you start a family.

[C1sc0cat]

What do say Lawyers, doctors and Traditional engineers Get ?

[srrr]

The source may be sketchy but is all I found.

Average lawyer: 50k€/year [1] Average doctor: 75k€/year [2] Average engineer: 60k€/year [3]

[1]https://www.gehaltsvergleich.com/gehalt/Rechtsanwalt-Rechtsa... [2]https://www.gehaltsvergleich.com/gehalt/Arzt-Aerztin-Uni [3]https://www.gehaltsvergleich.com/gehalt/search?jobname=Ingen...