[DisruptiveDave]

Do you not see value in overcoming challenges? In experiencing difficulties and pushing through self-imposed barriers? Do you not think someone who trains to climb Mt Everest, experiences the multitude of ups and downs (pun!) along the way, might have developed skills that will serve them in other situations?

[NikolaNovak]

Sure, but I think you need more details in your description if you want to make a specific point.

Per my other post, right now it feels like Person B just took an extra hardship for no good reason whatsoever other than its a hardship. If that's their norm, if they keep taking unnecessary hardships, they'll just constantly accomplish less for no specific reason.

If this is a hobby, a challenge they set for themselves, then this is no longer about specific accomplishment but about challenge itself. But then it doesn't apply to the course - which aims to produce a result with less hardship. Which is what most of us most of the time seek - I have a car because it's less hardship than walking 57km a day in rain to my work. I have an apartment because it's less hardship than living in a tent in a big city. I wear warm clothes in the winter because it's less hardship than being very cold constantly. I read articles because it's less hardship than watching long protracted videos. If I aim to learn something and that's the entirety of my goal, I will absolutely seek out the most efficient path there without.

Back in the day, back in the old country, my math teacher insisted we all use a book of logarithmic and trig tables. It was couple of hundred pages of numbers. It accomplished exactly the same thing as a calculator - it didn't enable us to learn anything more or figure out result ourselves - it was just harder than a calculator - a hardship for sake of hardship. The prof never ever could understand that it brought us no benefit over a calculator - and time saved could've been spent actually learning something extra or something better.

So there's a place for self-imposed barriers, occasionally, for specific purposes. But they're not inherently good or to be sought out - especially when you have an actual, specific goal and objective you want to accomplish.

[DisruptiveDave]

> But then it doesn't apply to the course - which aims to produce a result with less hardship.

And my point is it will fail. You won't get the best result without the hardship, and it's disingenuous to claim so. That's my opinion.

> Which is what most of us most of the time seek - I have a car because it's less hardship than walking 57km a day in rain to my work. I have an apartment because it's less hardship than living in a tent in a big city. I wear warm clothes in the winter because it's less hardship than being very cold constantly. I read articles because it's less hardship than watching long protracted videos.

I get what you're saying. But I see this as a problem long term. I see an optimization of comfort and "get to the end result as fast and 'efficient' as possible" and I don't like what that says for the future of human beings. Again, my opinion. Neither of us is wrong or right here.