[vitalus]

I think that the "Even in JavaScript..." comment was written with the idea that race conditions might not be present/possible in single threaded environments, such as JavaScript...I read it as "Even in a single-threaded environment, such as JavaScript..."

I don't think that most folks would hold up JS as some sort of gold standard of language design, and it doesn't seem that the author is doing so here.

[mntmoss]

I have a little rant on this.

In the scale of "understanding imperative semantics", awareness of race conditions is probably near the very high end of difficulty, while pointers are only somewhere in the middle. And that's a problem, because there are plenty of languages, JS included, that free you from understanding pointers while still making it very easy to create racy code. As such there are a lot of programmers going around with a false understanding of whether they are writing robust concurrent code - because they don't think it is concurrent. It doesn't say "concurrent" on it - this is a footgun naturally achieved with any sufficiently complex loop - and often they have made some effort to tuck away mutability in tiny functions, hindering efforts to find and fix the resulting race conditions.

[pdpi]

Inversely, it's relatively easy to abstract away the complexity of pointers (so we do), but useful abstractions that make race-y code impossible are horrendously hard to get right (so we don't).

Rust's borrow checker is a great example of the sort of complexity you _have_ to bring in to have your language protect you from data races.

[zzzcpan]

You don't need Rust's complexity and borrow checking to protect you from data races. Actor model does that without the bad parts.

[hderms]

That's true but actor model achieves freedom from data races by forcing ALL messages to be synchronized. This can be useful in some situations but imo isn't a panacea for concurrency issues

[zzzcpan]

> ALL messages to be synchronized

I'm assuming you mean implementation-wise. Only cross-core communications need synchronization and since messages are asynchronous you can pay synchronization costs only ones for the whole batch.

[knocte]

That makes more sense.