[TheBlack_knight]

Economic expansion is not a zero sum game. If China and India are training future engineers and scientist then great for them. We can hope to learn from them in the future and use there ideas in our own way. The article says something to the tune of: Indian companies taking knowledge from U.S. outsourcers and using that knowledge to start domestic firms. If Cina and India become leaders in the future for innovation the USA and the rest of the world will benefit in the same way.

This question has been answered several hundred years ago by David Ricardo, but others as well. This is not some crazy economic theory that is debatable today, its taken as fact by almost all economists. Economics makes takes no notice of national boundaries, they have no meaning.

I would encourage everyone to learn about some basic international economic theory, trade theory specifically. Knowledge shows that this article is total BS.

Xenophobia will not take us to the land of milk and honey.

[Umalu]

I agree. We do not compete as "Americans" vs. "Indians" or "Chinese." We compete as firms and products vs. each other. I guess it is not surprising that an article in Foreign Policy would see the world exclusively in the form of nation vs. nation, as that is surely how its diplomatic audience sees it.

[mbesto]

I agree with your point that economics knows no national boundaries.

> _international economic theory, trade theory specifically_

Do you have any good resources for this? Preferably free? Trying to expand my brain here ;)

[tokenadult]

Do you have any good resources for this? Preferably free? Trying to expand my brain here ;)

http://iang.org/free_banking/david.html

http://www.netmba.com/econ/micro/comparative-advantage/

http://www.econlib.org/library/Topics/Details/comparativeadv...

http://www.econ.umn.edu/~lepetyuk/Econ1101/lecture12.pdf

http://www.flatworldknowledge.com/pub/international-trade-th...

Searches on "international trade comparative advantage" will turn up some more links, as will combinations of other search terms with the two words "comparative advantage." I hope these links get you started in your admirable efforts at self-education.

[TheBlack_knight]

Those look good just glancing over them. To move beyond simple comparative advantage (if you're interested) I would recommend looking into the Heckscher-Ohlin theorem as well. It expands upon comparative advantage adding another level of complexity and more insight. Empirically the theorem has been mostly proven, something that not all economic theories are able to pass.

The Wikipedia page looks like a good overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckscher%E2%80%93Ohlin_model

Most insights into the benefits of trade can be seen in the Ricadrian comparative advantage model (see post above).

[binaryfinery]

Nice, neat, simple equations and math, at the Macro level.

To put this in hacker terms, these simple rules are about as simple as the http protocol. Now imagine the software that implements this simple protocol. Think of all the different ways to exploit it. Now imagine all the complex systems that can be created using these simple rules. Now add hackers, DDOS, government censorship, wikileaks, peering disputes, etc.

Economists would have us believe that these simple rules are "how it is". Now imagine the millions of people it takes to actually implement these simple rules. Imagine what it takes to actually make wine in Portugal. Now add that these people want pensions. Now include that these simple rules assume currency equivalence, or something like the gold standard to mediate production disparities. Now add the governments on top of this "protocol".

To believe this "proven economic theory" you have to live in a virtual machine.

[binaryfinery]

As you read these wonderful theories, remember that economist who was chosen as the best economist to run the US Federal Reserve said in 2005 that "now is the best time to get an ARM".

These genius suggested buying a house on an adjustable rate mortgage, at the peak of the market, when interest rates were the lowest they'd ever been. Bravo. Apparently, even the best economist in the USA is unable to see a bubble when its staring him in the face.

Fuck economists and their religion. Welcome to HN: where people have brains, can do math, and critical thinking.

[mbesto]

Excellent! thanks

[Umalu]

Years ago Paul Krugman wrote one of the best explanations of international trade and why so much of it is so counterintuitive so many: http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/ricardo.htm.

[binaryfinery]

Yes, quite right. We'll benefit in the same way that countries like Equador or Nigeria benefit from the USA's innovation, wealth and power.

Which is to say, if that if we have something that a Chinese superpower wants, they'll take it by force, or by installing a puppet government, and if we don't, then good luck buying those medicines: they are 10000yn, with $10 to the yn.

The "economists" who take your statements as fact do so because they are paid to do so. The ones who advocate protectionism are dismissed as communists or marxists.

The trade theory you talk about assumes a balance of payments, required by something like the gold standard, which simply doesn't exists now. This is economic war and the USA is losing. I did some International Relations at Cambridge University. You should try thinking instead of just "accepting as fact".