[bproctor]

Took me a bit to understand, courier doesn't have the bill, the drop does.

Boss: "Courier, deliver this money to <address>, code is 12345678" Courier: at <address>, "Hey Drop, what is the code?" Drop: "Code is 12345678" Courier: "That's correct, Here's you're money" Drop: Tears bill in half and hands part with serial number to Courier as proof

[rohan_shah]

Yes you're right. It's called "havala" in India and is common among traders of all goods.

People do this because having more than ~3000$ cash (in Rupees) is illegal, but people use it anyway.

So I can tell you that the Drop has the note.

And yes, here the whole note (bill) is given to the courier by Drop as receipt, not by tearing in half.

And I don't think even there people tear the serial number into half. Just the note.

[Razengan]

> People do this because having more than ~3000$ cash (in Rupees) is illegal

Wait, really?

Do you mean no one is allowed to keep that much money in a safe in their house etc., or what?

Why?

[caymanjim]

Is this really that surprising? Having more than roughly $10,000 cash in the US is nearly illegal, in that you're guilty until proven innocent and the police can just take it until you prove that it was obtained legally. You may not be charged with a crime, but you're still going to lose the money. The courts are slowly inching away from this unconstitutional insanity, but a duffel bag of cash is still going to end up turning into a new Hummer for whatever local police squad finds it.

[heelix]

Hah. So years back, I was going to buy a car. Went to the bank and they wanted (what I considered to be) a ridiculous service fee for a cashiers check. Fine... I'll take cash from my account! Ah, need a couple days to do that sort of thing... I, was miffed and stubborn as hell... so I did just that. Came back, got fingerprinted, and picked up my pile of cash to go buy the two year old 996.

The dealership, when time came to close, absolutely freaked when I pulled out the cash. Another set of IRS forms... and sorted it after several phone calls.

[perl4ever]

A cashier's check costs $1 in my experience...

[heelix]

TCF wanted $8 or so. I am not a clever man.

[Razengan]

...How is this not practically tyranny?

People here show concern over digital privacy and net neutrality etcetera but that's just tightening the noose, because apparently they've already put one on the bare basics.

[gist]

> Having more than roughly $10,000 cash in the US is nearly illegal

Where are you getting that from? [1] There is nothing even close to being illegal to possess in the US any amount of cash. There are laws to prevent illegal activity and against structuring (attempting to deposit below some limit to avoid disclosure).

Now to what appears to be your point having $100,000 in cash in open display in your car when you are stopped by the police will definitely raise suspicions. But then again so will many other things that are not illegal but might raise suspicions depending on the context of where they appear. (Walk into a bank with a toy pistol vs. walk around your friends backyard with a toy pistol).

[1] And what is 'nearly illegal' is that like 'nearly pregnant' (the classical example actually 'pregnant' or 'not').

[throwaway2048]

Look into civil forfeiture laws, cops will seize that amount of money if you have it, and it can be almost impossible to get it back.

[gist]

Very generally you would need to be a suspect in a crime which is completely separate from having cash and not being a suspect.

[perl4ever]

Has anyone ever just withdrawn cash from their bank account that was obviously from a legitimate source and had it seized by police and not been able to get it back?

Because the way people talk about civil forfeiture is as though this happens all the time, but ostensibly there's not supposed to be a problem if the cash is traceable.

Stories about civil forfeiture abuses that I've read don't delve into whether the victim actually was able to prove the source of the money in a normal way.

[rohan_shah]

All the high denomination notes (~80% of circulating currency) were demonetized in India on 8th November 2016. So all the money in the safe had to be taken to the bank to be exchanged.

And then taking out more than a limit of cash is a very lengthy process now.

So yes, it's not illegal to store cash but it's very difficult. And doing cash transactions above a certain limit are illegal.

Why? Because many business people in India don't pay taxes.

[Bograff]

I'm not up to date on the issue but India had an issue with black money and people hoarding cash without reporting the income. The laws were passed to combat that IIRC.

[cpeterso]

Why would the Drop need to retain half the serial number? They have received the goods.

[bartwe]

Ensuring the code isn't reused, to put in a ledger, to avoid some kind of replay attack, having someone pretend to be the courier and get the key to then replay to the real courier. Dunno, probably many many things avoided by making the key not usable but still verifiable.

[trickstra]

I can think of only one scenario when it would make sense to destroy the bill - if the Drop is still able to present the whole bill after the Courier says they delivered the package, that is a proof the Courier is lying or got played and didn't verify the code. Drop is the one who has motivation to keep the bill intact, Courier uses the bill as proof of delivery, and cuts it in half just to be safe that someone from the Drop won't stop them at gunpoint after the delivery, stealing the whole bill.

[qrbLPHiKpiux]

Very important to never reuse a code, or one time pad. Perfect forward secrecy.

[yesbabyyes]

I'm not sure the drop retains half the serial number? GP claims the drop rips the bill in half, and hands the part with the (full, I seem to recall US dollar bills have the serial number on the bottom left) serial number to the courier. The courier can prove they delivered to the right drop, and the bill being ripped in half will ensure it won't be used again.

[RaceWon]

> I seem to recall US dollar bills have the serial number on the bottom left

Our money (US Currency) has two (of the same) serial numbers on each bill; one on the lower left and one on the upper right for dollar bills. Other denominations also have two; one on each side of the front of the bill, however they are in opposite places i.e. upper left, and lower right--at least the current bills in my wallet are that way.

[afiori]

In a criminal organization security and accountability are a more complex topic, but I would say that this way the one serial number the drop keep is a proof of identity, while the serial number the courier keep is a receipt.

[p1mrx]

Well, the Drop can take the bills back to the bank. "The corners fell off. Can I have some fresh ones?"

[steevdave]

But they can't use that specific one again, it doesn't matter if they take the bill to a bank and get new ones, because the serial numbers won't be the same.

[inlined]

I doubt a Drop cares enough about $1 to repeatedly engage in suspicious behavior with a bank

[p1mrx]

That's the joke.