[RidingPegasus]

Buzzfeednews does ok sometimes but I'd have to disagree with this. Even as a staunch privacy advocate facial recognition could do wonderful things to benefit society, is not the real problem overzealous governments and wideranging police powers lauded over innocent citizens?

Maybe there really needs to be a discussion about how intrusive we are going to allow them to be and the dangers that poses. It's a silly kneejerk response to say "we should only allow human beings to stare at cctv cameras, not an algorithm"

The cat's out the bag, the technology isn't the problem, tech is amoral, it's the people using it we need to solve.

[smt88]

> is not the real problem overzealous governments and wideranging police intelligence agency powers lauded over innocent citizens?

Yes, they're the real problem. That doesn't mean it's futile to take away a powerful tool for them to use.

> tech is amoral

Tech is not amoral. It doesn't exist in a vacuum -- it has a context of who created it and what human actions it facilitates.

For example, ransomware is amoral. Sure, the tools used to build it are neutral, but that's true of anything if you zoom out far enough (e.g. steel is amoral, but CIA drones aren't).

> it's the people using it we need to solve

You can't "solve" people. There will always be selfish, stupid, and shortsighted people in the world. All you can do is make sure that they don't have concentrated, unilateral power over others.

Technology gives people that kind of power, and we can at least make sure that law enforcement in liberal countries doesn't misuse it.

[dredmorbius]

ITYM ransomeware is immoral?

[smt88]

Yes, I did. Too late to edit now. Thanks for catching that typo.

[jammygit]

Counterpoint from the article:

> The threat that facial recognition poses to human society and basic liberty far outweighs any potential benefits. It’s on a very short list of technologies — like nuclear and biological weapons — that are simply too dangerous to exist, and that we would have chosen not to develop had we had the foresight.

[easytiger]

> like nuclear ... simply too dangerous to exist

False equivalence aside, that's a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of civilisation there

[dijksterhuis]

Here’s a great idea - let’s invent a time machine to enable us to have that foresight!

Oh wait, hold on, now we can see what that person is going to do next Tuesday. Let’s stop him doing that thing.

Same problem, different hypothetical technology.

[notzuck]

Guns are also amoral but still manage to leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I think the reality is, this technology will be used against the public in negative ways. It's easier to get something banned than it is to change the nature of people.

I don't know where I stand on this to be honest. You are right that the real issue is "overzealous governments and wideranging police powers lauded over innocent citizens" but I don't know what the fix is.

[logicchains]

The fix is laws that limit the power of governments/police. If governments are not willing to pass these laws, they probably won't be willing to pass laws preventing them using facial recognition to spy on citizens either.

[jdnenej]

Sometimes the tech is so dangerous and the legitimate uses so minor in comparison that it should be largely banned or regulated.

[solveit]

Ah yes, the argument from personal lack of creativity. I cannot think of a legitimate use therefore there must be no downside to banning it.

[cf498]

Instead of going ad hominem you could also give a counterexample

[vangelis]

Could you provide an upside?

[solveit]

You could use it to find the lost kid in a crowded stadium. Or find lost people with dementia anywhere.

[cf498]

You can simply equip those people with a tracker. Then it also works if they leave the stadium. Put them in their shoes and you dont need their cooperation either.

If they dont have any just put the persons picture on the stadium screens.

[solveit]

But my point would still stand even if I couldn't provide an example either. The burden of proving that a technology has no significant benefits should fall on the people trying to ban it.

[pintxo]

You do realize that proving non-existence is rather ... difficult?

[umvi]

So we should ban the human brain for doing illegal facial recognition and other privacy violating acts?

[jdnenej]

There are countless things that our brains can do that are illegal to do with computers because our brains are so bad at it. Recording a phone call without notifying is illegal even though our brains remember it. Posting someone else's nudes without consent is illegal even though you can describe them from memory legally.

My eyes can't instantly recognise hundreds of strangers on the street and sync that data up with the global adtech database.