[_ph_]

I think you misunderstood me. I am making the point that Bitcoin has basically no value. Its only value comes from the fact that currently enough people think it has a value. Like the million dollar homepage. Once the novelty has worn off, it could drop to 0 value.

[mirimir]

I don't think that I did.

No currency "has value". For dollars, it's the US government.

Bitcoin has value for three main reasons: 1) it can be used to buy stuff online, and can be anonymized; 2) it's not controlled by governments; and 3) it's a popular speculative asset.

The first two aren't about novelty. Sure, if something else comes along that does those things better, people will shift. But none of the existing alternatives has managed that yet.

The third does have a huge novelty component. And personally, I wish that all the bloody speculators would just piss off. But whatever, I can live with them. And free money is cool too.

[uoylj]

A secure global ledger does have value though. At least it does to lots of people.

[_ph_]

Yes, Bitcoin seems to be popular in the trade of illegal goods and for paying ransomware. Doesn't exactly explain why most other people invest so much into Bitcoin. And the security is very dubious, considering the track record of Bitcoin exchanges.

[keymone]

sigh, how this is still an argument?

try going a step further and ask yourself why is bitcoin "popular in the trade of illegal goods and for paying ransomware".

hint: there's a thing that is even more "popular in the trade of illegal goods and for paying ransomware" - cash.

hopefully it's enough of a nudge in the right direction.

[mirimir]

People have wanted an online cash equivalent for decades. It's a privacy thing. "Illegal" means whatever authoritarian jerks want it to, so we can ignore that.

Ransomware obviously uses Bitcoin because it's reliable, and can be anonymized. And people use Tor for child porn and "illegal" drugs because it's secure and ~anonymous. They're popular because they work. And in a way, they're canaries for decent privacy lovers.

[_ph_]

Sorry, thats just a strawman. Bitcoin enables sending money over the internet off official channels. You are not going to pay for ransomware with your credit card.

[keymone]

> You are not going to pay for ransomware with your credit card

ugh.. did you misread my comment? i was talking about cash.

[_ph_]

How do you pay for ransomware with cash? Put it into an envelope and send it off to another continent to the address of the criminals? I explicitly talked about sending money over the internet.