[quakenul]

It comes down to what you are interested in. Right now DeepMind seems to be focused on beating humans on strategy and tactics, which is reasonable, since those are the contested areas and cpu winning on APM and TTFA has been solved for long ago. To not confuse one for the other, putting limits on the later (at some point maybe even stifling itself beyond what a pro player could reasonable to) seems like an excellent way to go about it.

[celdon25]

It's disputable whether any such limitations currently applied to AlphaStar are really working as intended. There has been some controversy over it. I saw the matches and it did seem that some of the actions taken by AlphaStar would not be possible to do by a human. Human APM is limited not just by the mechanical speed of one's hands, but also by the mental models that exist in one's brain. Muscle memory can't do everything for you. But in AlphaStar's case, it can perform every type of action as if it were done with the speed of muscle memory.

The original commenter's remarks about TTFA seems to be equivalent to what I'm referring to.

Relevant reading: https://www.alexirpan.com/2019/02/22/alphastar.html

[visarga]

They can train a discriminator network to classify actions as being generated by a human or bot. Then aim to generate actions that can't be distinguished.

[philipkglass]

> cpu winning on APM and TTFA has been solved for long ago

Has it? I'm not a RTS player but I thought that simple bots couldn't compete with top StarCraft players just with speed. It required strategy plus speed to first become competitve (though less strategy than required with slow APM and TTFA).

[quakenul]

Apologies, I should have been more precise: A cpu will win when you start isolating and creating a scenario to test for APM and TTFA (obviously), so if you are interested in advancing strategic and tactical AI capabilities – basically out-thinking the human – it makes sense to cap those solved parts to make sure you are winning because of progress you make on your objective.

[hkmurakami]

Individual mutualisk micro and perfect worker harass without decelerating are very very strong in Starcraft:Broodwar

[celdon25]

Brood War is much more dependent on micro than Starcraft 2. Sean "Day[9]" Plott has mentioned this a lot in his videos. You can only select 12 units at a time and cannot select more than one building in Brood War. And there is a bit of latency in Brood War that doesn't exist in SC2.

One such video (skip to about 4:30 for opinions on mechanics): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP9F-AZezCU

[tonmoy]

You are right, even average players can easily beat the AI player in Starcraft 2 (when the AI is not cheating)

[plopz]

Which AI are you talking about? The game-provided AI is not designed to beat players. It's designed to be a fun game mode for players.

[6gvONxR4sf7o]

That sort of game AI isn't designed to be strong. It's designed to be fun. See e.g. this talk titled "playing to lose" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJcuQQ1eWWI