[w1ntermute]

Wow, I didn't know this was the case. I always immediately image the hard drive, then wipe it and install Linux. I was under the impression that Java, Flash, and Adobe Reader had to be manually installed. Isn't it bad security-wise to bundle old versions of them? If the user puts off upgrading, they could easily get hit by an old vulnerability.

[wwortiz]

That is pretty much the main point of my comment is that they bundle these old versions and so many people just click no when java asks to update (I haven't seen a popup for flash so I don't know how many answer yes to that) and adobe only has a tray icon when the reader needs to update (which is perpetually there on so many machines).

One of the biggest annoyances for me with new windows laptops is that many of the manufacturers no longer send the windows cd to reformat if they send a cd at all it is to recover back to the condition with all crapware installed.

HP now has a recovery manager to create recovery disks for you and the last hp computer I saw had to create 5 dvds in order to recover to that state (which would probably require something like a 6 hour reinstall).

It is a sad state if you ask me that you get this now because it allows manufacturers to take away cost by bundling shareware with the computer, just a few years ago toshiba was still shipping legitimate windows cds which allowed you to reformat to normal windows.

[w1ntermute]

> HP now has a recovery manager to create recovery disks for you and the last hp computer I saw had to create 5 dvds in order to recover to that state (which would probably require something like a 6 hour reinstall).

And you can only create one set of recovery discs. I was creating recovery discs one time several years ago and the burn process failed. I had no way to start over. I never needed Windows on that computer, but if I had, I'd have had to fork over another $50 to Lenovo to get a set of discs.

That's why these days I just use Clonezilla to image the entire hard disk before Windows can even boot up for the first time. From that image, I can always restore Windows to its exact original state, and it's generally a hell of a lot faster than installing from optical media. Not to mention I can make as many copies of that Clonezilla image as I want, and store it wherever/however I want (local backup vs. offsite backup, optical media vs. hard drive vs. tape drive).

[wwortiz]

Well it at least seems to verify discs now.