[11235813213455]

Remember that lifestyles is actually what pull those companies production. It's easy to lower your environmental fingerprint to 5% of the average in first-world countries, if most people do this, the change is just massive

No offense, but we are going nowhere with your mentality

[joshypants]

They're correct actually. We've been overcompensating on personal responsibility, but changing personal behaviors won't save us from climate change. It's not enough. We need massive political mobilization and aggressive government action.

[WhompingWindows]

We can both reduce individual footprints AND have companies reduce their footprints. No need for either/or thinking here.

[joshypants]

What we're talking about is putting a halt to expending political capital on shaming people into being "green," "eco-friendly," or "sustainable" to save "the environment" and instead recognizing that we need drastic action to remove literally billions of people from grave danger. We're not going to ask companies to reduce footprints, we need to decimate the fossil fuel industry as fast as possible or we're cooked.

[mempko]

Also, most of the actions of these companies are heavily subsidized by the government. We tend to overstate market importance and understate government involvement. So while we as individuals have some control via spending habits, we have very little control over what is actually offered in the market. The fact that we can buy phones and computers isn't because of market forces, but decades upon decades of government investment and subsidy. Which if it didn't exist there would be no phones or computers.

So I say, start at the source, at investment and government involvement which will ultimately decide what is available in the markets.