[robwgibbons]

I agree a thousand times.

If women want to do tech (read: if they are interested in tech) then they will do tech, and good for them.

But god damn it, stop complaining about it. There may be a distinct lack of women in the industry, but stop acting like it's actually a problem. It would be great to have more, sure, but the industry is doing fine, and so are the women.

If you're interested in something, fucking do it. That's all there is to it.

No one told me to get interested in programming, and if they did I would have told them to fuck off. The same goes for women, and everyone else in the world.

[SpikeGronim]

How many times were you groped by a peer while learning to program? When you were in high school and first learning to code, did you have peers whose presence inspired all the women to leave the room because of their obnoxious behavior? These patterns of behavior are a real, measurable problem that discourages female computer science participation. That shrinks the talent pool and benefits nobody.

[thedz]

Are saying that the typical experience of a woman in tech is that they are groped by their peers?

I don't often do this, but (non-anecdotal) citation needed.

[jdp23]

I know a lot of women in tech and virtually all of them have either been groped or known a friend who was groped.

It can be interesting to poll your own network, although guys often have to get to a fairly deep level of trust before women will discuss it with them.

[SpikeGronim]

The citation was [1]. It is typical for women that attend open source conferences. That really sucks, for everybody involved.

1. http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/there-sexual-hara...

[thedz]

Yes, it does suck for anyone who undergoes sexual harassment.

But you're using the word "typical". It connotes that such harassment is not only regular, but expected if a woman attends a conference. Nothing you've linked to (and nothing they've linked to from what I've read) supports the position that sexual harassment is activity that a woman should expect to be typical when going to these conferences.

Do they happen more than any of us would like? Most definitely. I agree it's a problem. I disagree that it's a typical problem.

[robwgibbons]

If women decide not to do Computer Science because they don't like their male peers, I think you're right that there is a more fundamental problem: they probably didn't want to do Computer Science that much in the first place. I would never let my classmates determine my career path. Anyone who tries to argue that is a fraud.

It really is no more complicated than this: do what you love, and fuck everyone else.

I mean it when I say I would love to see more female programmers. But it doesn't help anyone by trying to argue it's all the boys' fault there are no women in tech.

If more women were interested in esoteric technical subjects like computer programming or engineering, they would do them. It's that simple. It just so happens there are more guys who are interested in these things.

[rue]

I do not think this is typical, yet, in High School. I think the social and sexual ineptness and poor behaviour is fostered and reinforced by the lack of female presence for the crucial years between, say, 14-23 (I doubt the number of actual sexual offenders — for whom acclimation is not a solution — is larger among the techy group than any others).

The long-term solution is to get more girls (HS and younger) interested in programming and so on.

Edit: probably unnecessary clarifications in italics.

[rue]

Want to fill me in about the flaw in my argument?