[nlco]

"Any group which sees gays, blacks, and women as fundamentally inferior loses its case for respect in my mind."

It's a good thing the LDS don't believe that. They have actively come out to defend against gay harassment. The injustice to blacks was fixed back when slavery was abolished. Men are taught to cherish and respect women, not that they are inferior. Stop your trolling.

[grantheaslip]

As far as I'm concerned, in any country with a separation of church and state, any group that opposes the ability of gays to marry is no friend of the gay community. They may have made some token gestures, but that doesn't change their core thoughts on gays, which is that the way they are is unnatural, and must be fixed. As long as they see being gay as a disease, and not a natural tendency, they're homophobic.

Their scripture is still full of outright, undeniable racism, and they consider the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. That's all the proof I need. They may have eased back on public racism, but for them to disavow their religion's racism would be to disavow their church entirely.

Mormon men may be taught to respect women, but women are taught that they should more-or-less stay at home and make babies, and for most of the community, if a women gets past her early twenties and isn't a housewife, it's seen as a failure. I consider that sexism.

[nlco]

thats actually not what separation of church and state refers to. What it means is that no church is suppose to run the government, voters are allowed (and suppose to) vote according to their beliefs, including religion. And religions are allowed to have a stance on issues.

The rest sure, you can interpret it that way, but most mormons are very nice people. They don't take the scripture literally and is instead suppose to be symbolisms.

Actually only in the very beginning of the Book of Mormon is the dark skin used to identify "sinners". Later on, as in past the first 50 pages, skin color was a non-issue.

And finally, women can get past their 20s and be perfectly fine people. They can never marry and be normal people. LDS people do put a strong emphasis, if possible, on a traditional "stay home mom and working father", but that is not sexism.

[zargon]

grantheaslip, thank you for standing up for real morality; for "holding to the rod," as they teach the children in Primary to sing. The LDS general authorities hold to the rod of subterfuge and you hold to the rod of truth.

The LDS church is a devastating force of oppression to millions of people. Thank you for pointing it out for what it is. Thank you.

[babalicious]

Please stop your own trolling - or should we just call it for what it is: lying.

Women are treated as inferiors in the LDS church. Polygamy would have continued for generations without the intervention of the federal government. The LDS church spends millions of dollars to support continued discrimination against gays.

Until 1978 blacks could not hold the priesthood in the LDS church. Some quotes from the "Book of Mormon": 2 Nephi 5:21-23:

"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

"And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities."

"And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done."

"And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey."

3 Nephi 2:15 reads:

"And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites."

Mormon leader ("Elder") Mark E Peterson:

"The reason that one would lose his blessings by marrying a Negro is due to the restriction placed upon them. 'No person having the least particle of Negro blood can hold the Priesthood' (Brigham Young). It does not matter if they are one-sixth Negro or one-hundred and sixth, the curse of no Priesthood is the same. If an individual who is entitled to the Priesthood marries a Negro, the Lord has decreed that only spirits who are not eligible for the Priesthood will come to that marriage as children. To intermarry with a Negro is to forfeit a 'Nation of Priesthood holders'...."

"If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

Etc etc.

Notwithstanding the cowardly, brain-dead, head-in-the-sand intellectual compartmentalization others are advocating here, I doubt any of us would be commending the SEO efforts of other organizations that have the kind of sordid history and unfortunate social passions the LDS church has had...and isn't shy about paying for.

[phuff]

babalicious, you know those statements from the book of mormon are about Lamanites which are American Indians, right? Not Africans? Just checking to make sure you didn't read them out of context..

[bry]

^ Oh look, a throwaway account. I wonder who created it :/

[babalicious]

^Oh, look, someone incapable of presenting any argument of your own, to any of the points. I wonder why that is? ;