[koonsolo]

> The US is not in the business of industrial espionage for commercial purposes - either on a corporate or governmental level, where China is.

Seriously? You are kidding right? You must be kidding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial...

The most poplular examples are probably German Enercon and Dutch Airbus, but our own Belgian Lernout & Hauspie was also targeted by something you are in complete denial of.

It's Europe here, we're supposed to be allies, no? So why is your government literally stealing business using industrial espionage? That's like sleeping with your best friends wife.

So yeah, get your facts straight please.

"No I didn't sleep with your wife, I would never do such a thing! But THAT guy, THAT guy does it!"

[wuliwong]

I have no clue what level of industrial espionage takes place in the US or China but the fact that it _has_ occurred in both places does not speak to the frequency and severity that these types of actions are taken. All your examples could be true and still the Chinese govt. could be orders of magnitude worse.

To me all of this is nearly irrelevant to OP's original point which was taking an American company's manufacturing to China is a risk. I don't think OP was implicitly making the claim that moving a Chinese company's manufacturing to the US is less of a risk. That seems to be the tangent that the comment thread has taken but it was not part of the original comment. I think there is more of a risk that the Chinese government will steal the IP from Apple in China than the US government will steal the IP from Apple in the US.

[koonsolo]

I was reacting to this statement: "The US is not in the business of industrial espionage for commercial purposes - either on a corporate or governmental level", which is obviously false. I wanted to rectify that.