[luckylion]

> The Iranian people are not the target -- Persia is a rich ancient civilization that's being repressed -- the West knows this and wants to see the Iranian people's massive creative potential unleashed.

Given that "the West" is largely responsible for installing/supporting repressive Regimes in Iran, that sounds a bit too naive. "Wants to replace the oppressive Regime with an oppressive Regime that will do their bidding" sounds closer to the truth to my ears.

Given the recent examples US led "Regime Change" in the area (Egypt, Libya, Iraq, to a lesser degree Syria), as an Iranian, I'd have some reservations about lofty speeches.

[espeed]

The US people fought several wars to free itself and establish its nation. And then it went back to Europe and fought WWI and WWII to ensure it's free. Iran is one the few places on Earth remaining to be free. But freedom is a choice, and the Iranian people have to choose it.

[RobertoG]

Ah, but Iran already chose freedom.

Unfortunately, they decided to use their freedom to take control of the oil in their country.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...

"The 1953 Iranian coup d'état,[..], was the overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favour of strengthening the monarchical rule of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the United States [..] and the United Kingdom [..]"

"Mosaddegh had sought to audit the documents of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), a British corporation (now part of BP) and to limit the company's control over Iranian oil reserves"

[senorjazz]

They made the wrong democratic choice, they needed some freedom wars and liberty bombs to be shown who the right choice was

[senorjazz]

The US (same as all countries ever) fought their wars to push forward their interests, no more no less. Of course the narrative the country tells itself is different (same as all other countries who fight wars), but the narrative is false.

If what you said was true, that people being "free" was so important to the US and the reasoning behind all foreign policy, then please explain away slavery? Segregation? Discrimination? Explain the wars of aggression, which despite their operational Orwellian names, have had nothing to do with freedom, or freeing oppressed peoples. Explain policies of supporting brutal right wing dictators throughout Latin America, the training of death squads, the military school of the Americas, the CIA coups / assinations of democratically elected leaders, the torture prisons, the giving of asylum to those not only reported of being involved in the above, but charged (in their home countries).

If what you said was true, that the US really was the first, noble country doing everything to "free" oppressed peoples the above wouldn't happen, but it does. Unless you mean freedom is for some, oppression for others, that could be argued perhaps somewhat true, but if so, then it negates what you are saying.

This isn't to single out the US, as I said the same is true for all global power countries since the beginning of time, but the narrative that the US only starts wars in a selfless manner is quite frankly ridiculous and naive beyond belief to anyone who has even an elementary understanding of world history as opposed to home state propaganda

[espeed]

The US (same as all countries ever) fought their wars to push forward their interests, no more no less. Of course the narrative the country tells itself is different (same as all other countries who fight wars), but the narrative is false.

The American War of Independence [1] is how the country was founded. If you think that narrative is false, how did the US come to be?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War

[cr1895]

What about the indigenous peoples of the present US? Did they choose freedom?

[espeed]

Yes. Here's what a group of Navajos chose to do the day after Pearl Harbor [1]...

"In this moment of national trial, Stephen and his son Hugh published an op-ed piece in The Times-Picayune. Recalling an episode from the Day after the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor, the piece started this way:

  “On Dec. 8, 1941, a large group of Navajo Indians saddled
   their horses, loaded their rifles and rode off their
   reservation to the nearest Army recruiting center. They 
   told the surprised recruiting officer that they were ready
   not just to enlist, but to start fighting that very day.
   Their country had been attacked. They would go to war.”

Stephen and Hugh used this incident to offer a telling illustration of the American Spirit—how it manifests itself, what it means.

These Native Americans had not been treated well by their government, by American society at large. Their culture and their language had been under attack, marginalized, discriminated against, for many years. Their opportunities in education and work were few.

But even these Navajo in their hardscrabble existence had a sense of the American ideal, the promise of individual rights, of opportunity for a good life as pursued first by our Puritan forebears, then by this country’s Founding Fathers—and as spelled out in the Bill of Rights.

In 1941 these Native Americans knew this promise, this ideal—and their country too now—was under attack. So they joined millions of other Americans to fight Japan and Germany in faraway places.

In fact, the Navajo Code Talkers [2] became a legendary weapon in our WWII military arsenal, for they were able to speak openly over the radio in the field—confident that the enemy would never crack their language. The Navajo reflected the common sentiment of the day: “We’re all in this together.” And their selfless acts spoke to the enduring American Spirit, the bright connecting thread in the fabric of our Democracy. This spirit is sometimes difficult to define or to quantify, but it holds great power—and you know it when you see it.

Our country would never have survived and prospered without this spirit. In fact, it wouldn’t have survived its earliest days. But where did this spirit come from? ..."

[1] The American Spirit: What Does It Mean? https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/american-spir...

[2] Navajo Code Talkers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker#Navajo_code_talker...

[espeed]

They're still free. I live in Texas, and most people are part-Native American here (including me).