[WhompingWindows]

It's neither misguided nor faux environmentalism. As a cyclist, going behind buses is straight toxic. Maybe you're a car user and you don't mind the dirtiest diesel engines, but those particles poison the lungs of our citizens and that nasty emission discourages people from using buses and cleaner transportation modes.

We must move to electrification if we want to save our lungs and our planet. No amount of dirtiest diesel is going to save us.

[ajross]

> As a cyclist, going behind buses is straight toxic.

Maybe[1], but still less so than the equivalent emissions from the dozen or so passenger vehicles that bus replaced.

The upthread point (which is correct) is that the environmental gains from bus transportation are concentrated in the efficiency gains of shared vehicles and that the relative impact of the fuel used is fairly minor. Get people on buses, then optimize. The linked article is worrying about things in the wrong order.

[1] I mean, no, not really. Diesel exhaust stinks, it's not particularly "toxic".

[hollerith]

>Diesel exhaust stinks, it's not particularly "toxic".

You might know your body well enough to be able to tell that it is not particularly toxic to you personally, but please consider the possibility others are more vulnerable it (because for example their bodies have more chronic inflammation than yours does).

The URL below goes to an article not about diesel exhaust or pollution, but about chronic inflammation, entitled "Understanding inflammation". Here is all the advice near the end of the article on how a reader might reduce inflammation. Emphasis mine.

>“Losing weight can have profound effects on lowering inflammation,” says Brown, who adds that eating a diet rich in fruits and vegetables and low in fats, processed foods, and sugars is generally a good idea, though more study needs to be done to determine how it might affect inflammation. Exercising, which causes an acute inflammatory response in the short term, but an anti-inflammatory one when we regularly get moving, is another strong step to take, he adds. Other researchers advise getting plenty of sleep, lowering stress levels, and seeking out treatment for inflammation-inducing culprits, such as gum disease and high cholesterol levels. Avoid contact with heavy metals such as mercury, which is found in dangerous amounts in some large fish, and limit exposure to substances, such as diesel exhaust and cigarette smoke, that can set off the immune system.

https://www.johnshopkinshealthreview.com/issues/spring-summe...

[ajross]

I don't know what the argument here is. Obviously you don't want to be sucking down diesel exhaust, and I don't believe I set a stake down on "diesel is good for you".

My point was that, on balance, riding in a bike behind a diesel bus is less toxic than riding behind the train of 10+ cars it replaced (or really that riding in a city filled with single passenger vehicles is less healthy than one inhabited by diesel bus riders.

Get folks out of their cars. Then worry about what kind of buses they ride.

[martythemaniak]

You seem fixated on cars emitting stuff. Riding behind any vehicle that burns and releases any fossil fuel sucks, and all those vehicles should be replaced. In fact cars are quite a bit ahead of busses.

[hollerith]

My argument is that maybe not for you, but for many people the exhaust from one diesel bus is worse than the exhaust from 10 or 20 gasoline / petrol cars. The article I linked to makes no mention of any kind of pollution except for diesel exhaust.

(In California, where I live, the vast majority of cars are gasoline / petrol cars.)

[ajross]

So... you're genuinely advocating against the use of public transit? Seriously?

[hollerith]

No, I don't.

[cr1895]

Public transit isn't limited to diesel-powered buses.

[dsfsafasfasf]

It's not toxic in an acute sense, but it's equivalent to cigarette smoke and chronically terrible for you (I love smoking and diesel, btw). Both are low T impartially combusted complex hydrocarbons that generate a stew of different nanoparticles and reactive species.

It's terrible stuff!

You can argue that it's benign in the middle of nowhere, where the concentration drops to nothing quickly. But not in the city!