[DisruptiveDave]

It is pragmatic in execution. Taking active steps to understand and manage the way your mind works, deal with reality without bias or judgment, and relieve yourself of attachments and desires that cause suffering is about as pragmatic as you can get.

[bilbo0s]

I gotta agree with HN User "gorio" on this one. Your initial explanation, and your clarification are a bit closer to romanticism, (or perhaps idealism?), than pragmatism.

Pragmatism is relating to matters of fact or practical affairs often to the exclusion of intellectual or artistic matters. (That's a dictionary definition.) But yeah, in war for example, you are very much not thinking about taking active steps to manage your mind, or managing the way your mind works, or anything of that nature. You just become very pragmatic. Your desires become almost the only thing you consider at the pragmatic extreme represented by combat for instance.

I think you're speaking more on a certain type of idealism maybe? The practice of following ideals, or living under their influence. But romanticism works too.

[DisruptiveDave]

> dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations.

That's the definition. What I outlined - granted, without the specific action steps - is sensible and realistic. And it distinctly is not about happiness. Romantic would be "just be happy." Would you consider behavioral therapy romantic?

Edit: I'm really hoping you guys aren't saying that anything involving a person managing their mind/emotions is romantic and impractical.

[bilbo0s]

Well, for my part, I kind of fell on the side of your posts representing more "idealism" than anything else. But, yes, I think "romanticism" works as well. Since romanticism is marked by the imaginative or emotional appeal of what is heroic, adventurous, remote, mysterious, or idealized. Romanticism is not all about being happy. There are romantic heroes in comedies as well as tragedies. The history of literature for instance is replete with many examples of both. Your idea is to make the heroic effort to fix one's mind. Which can easily become a tragedy.

I think pragmatism fits least because of your clarification. Managing one's mind, or ridding oneself of desire, and especially dealing with reality without bias or judgement, are just not terribly realistic in nature. We should certainly strive to deal with reality without bias or judgement for instance, but, I mean, we obviously don't do that in practice. None of us do. Despite the protestations of the number among us who would claim to be completely non-judgemental. Especially not when we find ourselves at a pragmatic extreme. In combat for instance, there is a whole lot of bias and judgement because people start to become almost too pragmatic.

But we can just agree to disagree. No worries man. Just wanted to explain my thinking.

[DisruptiveDave]

Couldn't reply to your most recent reply so I'm doing it here:

> Managing one's mind, or ridding oneself of desire, and especially dealing with reality without bias or judgement, are just not terribly realistic in nature. We should certainly strive to deal with reality without bias or judgement for instance, but, I mean, we obviously don't do that in practice.

From that point of view, I get how you're looking at this. You're certainly not wrong. I'm likely letting my own bias color my thoughts here because I practice this more aggressively (and actively) than most. So I've seen how realistic it can be. But generally speaking it's not very realistic, you're right.

[gorio]

My opinion is largely in line with "bilbo0s". What I would emphasis is that I don't object to your solution as such. It is that if you are having mental problems your mind is by definition already compromised. That you can't self-correct is essentially the problem.

To try and fix that by understanding your mind might not be a bad idea, but it remains a theoretical solution until you can presume some success rate. Going to therapy might give you that if you have the means, social stability and trust to do so. Which might then result in you leaving the pool of people having problems.

But if you don't have the conditions to go to therapy successfully, or don't end up succeeding anyway, that solution also remains theoretical. The further down this rabbit hole we go the harder it gets the solve the problem and the less pragmatic understanding your own mind becomes. Instead pragmatism would be to get people in a position where they can realistically work on implementing that, or another, solution successfully.

In that sense I could agree that your position could be considered idealistic rather than romantic. As my objection isn't that it isn't pragmatic because it couldn't work, but that it isn't pragmatic because it wouldn't work in many situations that would also required other things.