[ryanmercer]

>Institutional slavery.

I would rather have them working, following rules to keep their work privileges, than sitting around being bitter about being incarcerated or learning new methods of committing crime from others incarcerated with them.

The unfortunate truly innocent people in prison aside, if you break the law you deserve to serve a sentence proportional to the severity of the crime.

As long as you aren't using them to break rocks, do dangerous jobs that normally pay very well, etc then I'm completely fine with it. Stuff like manufacturing, basic construction, food prep, even order fulfillment I have no issue with whatasoever and if I were incarcerated I'd actually prefer to be doing something 40 hours a week instead of sitting around reading the same handful of books wondering what's going on with my friends, wondering if there's any new cool tech, wondering if I'll be able to cut it when I get out, wondering if the new guy is going to try and kill himself etc.

Last year it came out California was using prisoners at 1$ an hour to fight wildfires, but it was completely voluntary and they did NOT have a shortage of volunteers. I believe there was a thread on here (possibly reddit though) where a commentor mentioned how a family member had done this sort of work and was happy to be out doing it. While those individuals were denied the ability to get firefighting licenses when released I imagine mentioning in your job interviews "look, yes I messed up and went to prison, I did my time, while there though I volunteered to fight wildfires. I risked my own life to do backbreaking work to try and limit the spread of the fires, I could have easily sat back at the prison watching tv of playing cards but..." is going to also help you considerably, as will most prison work programs to various degrees.

[behringer]

They should get paid the same as anyone else. If they're not good enough to get paid a fair wage, then you don't need their labor, and they don't need you.

Want to keep people out of prison? Teach people that they're valued and that their work has value.

[ryanmercer]

According to the Vera Institute of Justice, incarceration costs an average of more than $31,000 per inmate, per year, nationwide.

I'd call the amounts they get paid to work are more than generous since they do not have to repay the cost of their incarceration.

---

And not directed specifically at you, but those in general in this thread griping about how little they get paid and how expensive stuff is in prison commissaries... commissaries aren't there to provide basic needs in most cases, they are there to provide rewards/amenities like canned foods and vending machine type foods, radios, televisions, mp3 players, soda, ice cream etc depending on the facility. There are numerous prisons in the united states that have cable/satellite tv in-cell or in common areas (the company Correctional Cable TV alone serves more than 140 facilities across 21 states).

Getting paid ANYTHING for the labor is a reward. Never mind that in many prisons being allowed to get a job is again, a reward, that you can get for following the rules and not causing problems.

[komali2]

Try seeing it in another light: that is our punishment for failing to create a society that removes the need for crime.

How much of those 30k/year inmates are we wasting tax dollars incarcerating because we refuse to acknowledge that marijuana is not worthy of a schedule 1 certification? How many because we failed to provide an equal opportunity education system?

The prisoners are already being "punished" by having their freedom taken away. I don't see why they should have to pay for the mechanisms that remove their freedom at the same time. They're still citizens. They have paid and will continue to pay taxes. They still participate in the system despite being a prisoner of it.

We don't make people pay per usage of the existence of the FDA. Why make them pay for their own prison?

[jacquesm]

> I'd call the amounts they get paid to work are more than generous since they do not have to repay the cost of their incarceration.

Prisoners do not have any control over how much their incarceration costs, therefore have no obligation to pay any of it back. The idea is that the loss of liberty alone is atonement, no judge ever sentenced an inmate to 'n days of incarceration + repayment of expenses incurred by the state in a negotiation process in which the defendant played no part'.

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with your comments, whatever your goal is you are likely not helping it.

[fiter]

It sounds like you may be coming from a different law system than the person that you're replying to as there are many places in the US where such days of incarceration also mean incurring costs for housing and supervision.

It's hard for someone to control the costs of something that they've already committed, but I don't think there's any way around that. If it turns out that destroying a painting costs more or less depending on who does the restoration, that's not in the vandal's control.

For what it's worth, I think he made a valid point along with a fact that contributed to the discussion.

[behringer]

If prisons want to garnish wages, I have no problems with that. Put it on a balance sheet and hand over the receipt.

Right now that's not what the system is for, and it's outright slave labor.

[fiter]

I believe some states do exactly what you say.

[jacquesm]

Prisoners are not meant as cheap labor.

[moate]

You say this, and I agree with you, and yet the system works the way it works for a reason.

Like if I were an amoral shitbird with lots of money and familiarity with law enforcement, I'd probably start opening a chain of for-profit prisons while also lobbying for "tough on crime" laws and politicians. Then I'd use my for prisoners to produce goods which I could then sell back to someone for a profit.

But I'm sure no amoral shitbirds like that exist and the 80s/90s saw this happen purely by coincidence.