[gregoryexe]

This article blames sprawl and climate change, but neglects the connection to the Plum Island Animal Disease Center right off the coast of Lyme CT. Borrelia has been in the US for ages, but wasn't known for causing the debilitating symptoms this modern strain causes.

[ceejayoz]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/books/04/02/lab.257/index.ht...

> Moreover, a Department of Agriculture spokesperson, Sandy Miller-Hays, told the news service that -- counter to Carroll's claims -- Lyme disease was never studied at Plum Island.

As for symptoms, it was described in the 1760s as "exquisite pain [in] the interior parts of the limbs", neurological symptoms in the 1920s, etc. That it took a while to recognize the cause of these things doesn't mean the disease didn't exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#History

[ColanR]

I think that a government spokesperson should not be considered a reputable source when speaking on potential misdoings by the same government. Is there an independent source that can speak to the Plum Island claims?

[ceejayoz]

Given that it's impossible to prove a negative, the onus is on conspiracy theorists to provide evidence that Lyme research was performed there.

[ColanR]

15 years ago, conspiracy theorists were being asked to prove government spying. It's hard, and the coverup might leave only circumstantial evidence, but it doesn't mean its not true.

Either way, if you're trying to provide a source against the point being made, it needs to be better than that one. Is there any other?

Edit: I did a bit of looking into it.

Tick-borne diseases were definitely studied there, which means general subject was being researched. (a bunch of pubmed studies are listed here [1], and pubmed shows in the author information that they were from Plum Island. Ignore the site if you like, just look at the pubmed articles.)

The geography of the disease also fits a spread from the Plum Island facility. See the same article for a map.

I obviously can't go order and read a physical book off the cuff, but it seems like the Lab 257 book by Carroll is decently reliable, as far as can be expected when making claims counter to an official government position. From wikipedia: "The review in Army Chemical Review concluded 'Lab 257 would be cautiously valuable to someone writing a history of Plum Island'".

Anyway, in summary, there is enough evidence to ask a reasonable question: which puts the onus back on the government, or you, to provide credible evidence that Lyme was not developed there.

[ceejayoz]

> The geography of the disease also fits a spread from the Plum Island facility. See the same article for a map.

No, it doesn't, considering it was documented in Scotland in the 1700s. The Plum Island facility was started in 1954.

> From wikipedia: "The review in Army Chemical Review concluded 'Lab 257 would be cautiously valuable to someone writing a history of Plum Island'".

The actual quote is:

> The review in Army Chemical Review concluded "Lab 257 would be cautiously valuable to someone writing a history of Plum Island, but is otherwise an example of fringe literature with a portrayal of almost every form of novelist style."

In other words, "it gets the biographical stuff mostly right, before it goes nutty".

> Anyway, in summary, there is enough evidence to ask a reasonable question: which puts the onus back on the government, or you, to provide credible evidence that Lyme was not developed there.

Lyme's historical record predating the very existence of the lab is fairly conclusive proof that it wasn't developed there.

[gregoryexe]

> No, it doesn't, considering it was documented in Scotland in the 1700s. The Plum Island facility was started in 1954.

Yes, it does. This strain was before unseen in the US so much so it's very name references where it was first seen in the US, regardless of where it may have been elsewhere in the world.