[Bokanovsky]

Rancilio primarily make coffee machines for coffee shops. The Siliva is a cut down version of a shop coffee machine. It's targeted for home enthusiast or a place expecting to make the occasional coffee.

If you compare it to a regular home coffee machine the Rancilio contains more metal. The portafilter (the thing with the handle that contains the basket where the coffee grinds are put) is the same as their shop grade machines. It's big and heavy and feels solid like it'll last a long time. While if you compare the portafilter of a regular home coffee machine they often feel cheap and flimsy. The switches on the front feel industrial too. With the exception of a few bits (as noted in the article) the exterior is mainly stainless steel. While other home coffee machines at similar price point (and above) are far more plasticy.

The Siliva is often a good introduction for home coffee enthusiasts and hardware hackers alike. They're often recommended on coffee snob forums as a result. They're fairly ubiquitous so getting parts is straight forward. IIRC The manual contains circuit diagrams. It's easy to open and tinker with too. The most common modification is adding a PID controller to regulate the temperature.

The machine itself is straightforward but fills a niche. The next level up of more expensive home enthusiast machines generally cost at least twice the price. The next level up of coffee machine generally includes a PID and often twin boilers, so you can use one boiler for shots and the other boiler to foam milk. While with the Siliva as it's only got a single boiler you have to do your shots first, then switch it over to steam mode.

If you look after Siliva it can last for 10 years or more (I've had mine that long and it's still going on). I really want a duel boiler machine, but I'm trying to figure out which ones are good at the moment.

It'd say a Delonghi with similar specs is aimed at someone more causal. The kind of audience George Clooney is targeting with Nespresso. While the Siliva is not aimed at someone who just wants a coffee. You have to learn how to make decent coffee and for that it needs to be paired with a good grinder.

[OJFord]

> IIRC The manual contains circuit diagrams.

It does, I bought one (new, latest model) recently and was thrilled to see that. I've bought ~'80s amplifiers on eBay and loved that the manuals have circuit diagrams, and thought it was a lost era.

The Silvia's is far simpler (to state the obvious) but a wonderful inclusion.

Even though it's fairly readily determined, given its simplicity, it'd make me more confident in any repair or modification.

The one I have been thinking of is replacing the pump and reservoir with (a pressure reducing valve and) an electronic valve plumbed in, so that I never have to top-up, or risk the boiler running dry.

[beenBoutIT]

The metal content is the main difference, DeLonghi (and every other popular home espresso machine )are almost entirely made of plastic. Boiling water in plastic leaches harmful chemicals into the espresso and add subtle flavors that shouldn't be there. The DeLonghi level machines are built to last a few years and be replaced while the commercial machines can easily outlive their owners.

[carlob]

My Delonghi has a fair share of metal, has lasted me 8 years already and doesn't seem to show much in terms of wear.

Now let's suppose it dies now, it would have cost me 10 euros per year. I would have to keep a Roncilio for 64 years to get the same bang for the buck. I'm starting to think that maybe it's a volume problem, you need to make coffee for at least 10 people daily and then you might see a difference.

Also I think that living in a place where a good espresso costs less than a euro makes it kinda hard to justify a coffee machine that costs almost as much as a used car... :)

[smueller1234]

At the same time I heard at least certain years of the Silvia used solder with lead. shrug Pick your poison?

[nosianu]

I had an almost unused 2012 model still lying around and had it tested by a local government lab. I took the water sample myself (so it does not officially count because it's not "certified") but after speaking with the head of the lab about the procedure.

Result: Waaaayyyy over the (German) limits for lead in drinking water.

I wanted to sell it but added to the post that I wanted to wait for the results, and that I would scrap it and not sell it if there was lead. There were several people who still wanted to buy it. As someone who has had to have treatment with chelators, albeit against mercury, I have seen what those academic and abstract warnings "there is no amount of lead (or mercury) that does not do damage" mean in practice: With my (university clinic researcher) doctor's consent I continued chelation far beyond any of the "limits" (i.e. when tested levels had fallen below any official limits in urine or blood I still continued, for years). It STILL had an effect, and it was recognizable in objective symptoms, not just subjective ones.

For almost 100% of people the dangers of lead (or heavy metals or environmental poisons in general) are way too abstract to be taken seriously. I've given up - actually I never really seriously tried, and if so only by short comments such as these and never to anyone in person in order to not ruin relationships - to convince anyone. Those poisons don't make you sick in small quantities, they just, very, very gradually, make you function worse. Since this is 100% correlated with aging, since it takes a long time, all those effects will a) be part of your life, you got used to it gradually, b) attributed to age. Only if you do were to do something really extreme such as what I did (had to, was forced to by circumstances) would you be able to see a difference. For what it's worth, my doctor too thinks this is vastly under-recognized and a much bigger problem than even the vast majority of doctors think. The only reason I now it was not "stress" or "age" is because a long list of quite common ailments is completely gone now, from occasional small localized short cramps to psoriasis to warts to only mention three common ones.

I would not buy that machine. There are lead-free alternatives. I have a Vibiemme Domobar (with PID). This particular machine uses copper everywhere, even all the small parts of the E61 brewing group, which I've only ever seen with brass parts everywhere else. I had its water tested too, no lead whatsoever, but elevated copper - which is a non-issue (the body has far better mechanisms to handle copper, since it's an essential metal, reflected in the official limits in drinking water, which are several orders of magnitude higher for copper).

[q3k]

> Result: Waaaayyyy over the (German) limits for lead in drinking water.

Is this a sensible comparison to make? You will likely be drinking at most 120ml (4 shots) of rancilio espresso per day, which is around 4% of your daily ~3L recommended water intake.

How high were the results, anyway?

[mschuster91]

> Is this a sensible comparison to make?

There is no such thing as "safe lead exposure limit".

[carlob]

> ~3L recommended water intake.

This is a myth. You're supposed to have around 2 l of water, from all sources: meaning that you'd have to eat only freeze-dried food to actually need that much water.

[lostlogin]

> If you look after Siliva it can last for 10 years or more (I've had mine that long and it's still going on).

I inherited an early model one from a family and have passed it along after it’s first and only professional service ($30US). It’s made approximately 15k coffees in its time.

[carlob]

> If you look after a Silivia It can last for 10 years or more

My DeLonghi has lasted 8 years so far and I didn't treat it too well. I guess I might not be an enthusiast above the level of Clooney, but this feels to me a lot like bikes and dentists :)

[nicpottier]

My Silvia is going on twenty years and I bought it used! There's really no upper limit if you take care of them.

[bobf]

As far as which machine to get, I ended up choosing the Rocket R58 v2 ~5 years ago and have been very happy with it. It checks all the boxes: double boiler, E61 group head, timeless/classic appearance, PID, fits under normal residential kitchen cabinets, etc. I'm satisfied with my current grinder, a Baratza Sette 270Wi, but I do occasionally consider upgrading to a Monolith.

[eas]

Re good dual boilers at the moment, for ~analog I would check out ECM Synchronika with flow control. For ~digital, Decent DE1.

And Niche Zero for grinder.

[enjeyw]

> I really want a duel boiler machine

I'm biased because it's Australian, but I'm in love with the Breville Dual Boiler. The portafilter has non-standard dimensions which vexes me a little, but it pulls phenomenal shots; I've found the quality to be similar to the La Mazzocco GS3, while being literally one tenth the price.

Oh and the steam wand is lovely.

[davidgould]

I had a Ponte Vecchio Lusso spring lever machine for ten years. It made lovely coffee but required a lot of maintenance, replacing piston seals, pressure stats, sight glass seals, pressure guage. I also had to remove and cap the ports for the low water sensor due to leakage and to re-wire it a couple times due to burned switches and connectors. It caught on fire once. The build quality was "rustic", panels with sharp edges, blobby solder, rust under the chrome, cover that had to be leaned on to make fit when reinstalling it.

I had a love-hate relationship with it, the group head design was very forgiving, it required almost no technique to pull a very good shot, could be left on for a long time and be instantly ready, powerful steam, heated up fast etc. Really an ideal home machine except for being a total POS.

Every few months when I had to repair it I thought about replacing it but there really wasn't anything out there with the combination of shot quality and ease of use and small kitchen practicality. The E61 machines are large, require good technique, use a lot of water, generate a lot of heat and probably are not that much more reliable as they are also sort of craft workshop built. The Silvia is overrated and very fiddly, it can make great shots, if the stars are just so. Manual levers are fetish objects for collectors, coffee hobbyists, and masochists.

What I really wanted was a modern design built with modern processes, ie a Tesla, not a Fiat 124 Spider from the 60's.

Enter the Breville 920XL dual boiler. It makes better coffee and is even more forgiving and consistent than my old Ponte Vechio. It heats up fast and steams well. I don't love the tamper as much as my old rosewood and brass one for the Ponte Vecchio, but the magnetic tamper holder is one of those tiny details that makes me happy every shot. Two years in it's been perfect, except for just the tiniest steam wand valve leak recently. Time will tell, but since I got it at Costco, I'm out nothing if it's a problem.

[_urga]

"The Silvia is overrated and very fiddly, it can make great shots, if the stars are just so."

The Silvia works perfectly every time. But you need to know something about making coffee i.e. roast, grind, dose, tamp, temperature, time, yield, steam, pour etc.

[davidgould]

So you are agreeing with me?

The Lusso and the Breville will make great shots if your grind and tamp are even close. My wife and child both could regularly make great shots after a few minutes demo with either of those. I do adjust the grinder from time to time as the coffee ages or when we get new beans, but that's it.

I don't think that would be possible with the Silvia.

[_urga]

No, the Silvia is an excellent machine.

Professional coffee machines are just tools. It's the barista who takes responsibility for making coffee.

You can get perfect shots every time with the Silvia. It's not difficult. You just need to understand what you're doing.

If you enjoy your Breville though, that's great!

[carlob]

> La Mazzocco GS3

Holy moly $7k?!

[alfiedotwtf]

> I really want a duel boiler machine, but I'm trying to figure out which ones are good at the moment

Check out the Brewtus (Expobar Minore IV). Double boiler, E61 group head, PID. God shot territory every pull.

[abakker]

I really like my QuickMill QM67 - I use it every day, and have for 6 years. I figure I have close to 5000 shots on it and it has had only about $20 of parts replaced (group gasket, some locktite on the steam nut).

[alfiedotwtf]

hehe nice. The QM67 is always compared with the Brewtus, and I like that the QuickMill has a shot timer. It's a good buy too.