[thefounder]

>> It is just as bad as cash.

You mean that it is as good as cash. Bitcoin become a failed project, a big internet casino. Some people want to use digital money to make payments and get paid, you know?

The success of the facebook coins depends by the ways to redeem the tokens(i.e do other shops accept it, can they be cashed out at atm, can you use it with 3rd party wallets etc)

[maxlybbert]

Quoting the animated Dilbert TV show when Dilbert buys his mom a gift card: “you’ve exchanged your money for something like money, but less useful.”

[maxlybbert]

I finally found a real source, and as usual, my memory leaves much to be desired (ultimately Dilbert gets a gift certificate):

Alice: A gift certificate is completely different from cash.

Dilbert: No, it's not. They're both pieces of paper you can exchange for goods and services.

Alice: You're missing the point.

Dilbert: Actually, a gift certificate is worse than cash, because you can only use it in one place.

Wally: And it expires.

Alice: At least it shows some thought.

Dilbert: It shows defective thought. You're trading perfectly good money for something that does the same thing, only not as well.

Facebook’s currency may not expire or be limited to one place, but it does seem to me that “it does the same thing [as money], only not as well.”

[dwild]

> Facebook’s currency may not expire or be limited to one place, but it does seem to me that “it does the same thing [as money], only not as well.”

I don't know but each time I try to show my cash into the computer... nothing happen.

Libra does the same thing as "Paypal" would be more fitting, but then you forget that not everyone can use Paypal and that's where your logic fail.

Venmo is always my best example for that, because I do have a Visa card, I do have a Paypal account. I'm in a developed country, thus I don't have issues to do transactions online. I still wouldn't be able to use Venmo though. If you were to only accept my transaction from Venmo, because you didn't like Visa and Paypal (yeah I know Venmo is owned by Paypal but you understands the point). Now imagine this world, but without any of theses.

- Anyone can own a Libra wallet, me, you, someone in the middle of a third world country.

- Anyone can transfer from a Libra wallet, to another, me, you, someone in the middle of a third world country included.

That means that anyone can arbitrage values of Libra, anywhere in the world, whether Visa, Mastercard or Paypal decide that market worth it or not.

Thus, anyone can pay using Libra, which make Paypal, "the same thing [as Libra], only not as well."

[thefounder]

Well, you can't send physical money over optical/copper cables, can you?

[maxlybbert]

Personally, I believe PayPal, Western Union, banks, etc. have come up with decent ways to send money electronically.

[dwild]

> Personally

That's the whole issue. You forget about everyone else that don't have access to Paypal or Western Union, or even wire transfer.

[jrvxo]

That series was brilliant. I don't know what happened to it :(

[russian_bot]

No, it's worse than cash. Cash has the ability to be anonymous, be used for regulation arbitrage, and is untraceable.

This "facebook coin" likely has none of these properties.

[hanniabu]

Bitcoin has not failed. I know several people personally that are paid in it. They can also use it to buy things.

[cycrutchfield]

And when they buy things, are those things denominated in fiat currency or in bitcoin?

[VRay]

I guess Bitcoin is turning out to be the Esperanto of money

[CaptainZapp]

Somehow I don't think that you mean that as a compliment.

[Lordarminius]

> are those things denominated in fiat currency or in bitcoin

By your logic if I exchange dollars for euros to spend on a vacation somewhere that means the dollar has failed ?

[thefounder]

Bitcoin is volatile. That's the main issue. You can't say that about the dollar or euro.

Now imagine you get paid in bitcoin, save every month for a holiday or a high value purchase. When the time comes to make the purchase you find out that your savings are worth less than 10%. How does it feel using bitcoin?

I tried to use bitcoin(as a merchant) but due its volatility it makes no sense to use it(as merchant or buyer).

[Lordarminius]

Its volatile because it is relatively new and not backed by a government. Market forces are having their way.It will stabilize

[411mrc]

At this point, it's a feature to have things denominated in $. I'm likely going to buy a Purism laptop with bitcoin, but of course denominated in $. I spent a couple hundred on BTC years ago, which has generated a nice return. This will be my first purchase, and I'll have plenty of BTC left over. Holding a deflationary currency while the world operates on an inflationary one is fine by me.

[hanniabu]

Both

[thefounder]

I guess they have the shopping list ready by the time they get paid otherwise chances are they end-up with less(or more, it becomes a gable) value by the next day. Not to mention the exchange rate(i.e the employer uses a rate, the merchant a different one...). In the real life people don't like to gamble their wages every single day. They want and need a stable currency and low fees. Bitcoin failed to offer any.

[nutjob2]

The bar for success in your mind is suspiciously low.

[hanniabu]

What would your bar for success be? I was merely responding in a way that met the parents comments.

[hanniabu]

Would love to know why I was downvoted

[ivalm]

Because to claim that bitcoin succeeded as a payment/salary method is ridiculous. Vast majority of bitcoin volume is just speculation on exchanges. The massive price volatility is a testament to why it cannot be used as a currency -- who would want to make a services/job contract that in a matter of a year could change its value by an order of magnitude. The whole point of these contracts is to hedge against future volatility. Remember, if bitcoin goes up then the employer gets screwed, if bitcoin goes down then the employee gets screwed; there is no direction that is good for everyone, only stability is good.

Furthermore, good currency should encourage investment (into things) which means it needs to be (slightly) deflationary (to introduce a cost to not investing into production). Otherwise you get into a paradoxical/toxic situation where NOT producing useful things becomes financially advantageous.

[411mrc]

You're arguing for a demurrage currency, not a fiat, debt- leveraged fractional reserve one.

[ivalm]

I am arguing against bitcoin, not for something. I definitely am not arguing for fiat.