[floriferous]

Why do so many people on hackernews appear to really know their stuff when it comes to aeronautics?

Between the F-35, the ethiopian crash, and plenty other related topics, I’m amazed at the quantity and quality of the comments.

I would expect this topic to be kind of niche, and not attract >100 comments everytime!

[divbyzer0]

Perhaps the perceived shortcomings appear to be obvious to even the non-aeronautically trained?

I recall the MCAS issue being discussed here well before governments grounded the 737max. The FAA being one of the last to ground.

The F-35 issues appear to share those common in engineering. Over promising, over spending and not able to deliver on those promises, because no solution can satisfy all wants/requirements.

In my explicitly unqualified view, the F-35 tries to be everything to all services, yet my limited understanding on aeronautics is (similar to marine engineering); is the best designs are those that focus on a specific task.

[pas]

To alter the picture a bit and complicate a lot more:

it's of course possible to make a new jet fighter/bomber/thing that satisfies all of the requirements. The issue is cost and time.

The F35 is a classic mega-R&D project. Like going to the Moon, fusion, self-driving cars, XUV litography [or the whole process/node change from 10nm to 7 or 5nm]. Costs are enormous, lifetime TCO is also very high. It's so complex and funding is so far from infinite, that it is and will be never "done".

We know these. Just as you can always tweak a nuclear reactor or atomic bomb design, just as you can always make better microchips, you can always make better jets.

It's also very similar to the JWST (James Webb Space Telescope) - the goal/design is pretty straightforward, just the engineering way to get there, is not. It calls for "tech" that's simply does not exist, and calls for systems integration of that tech on a level that simply cannot be adequately estimated/planned.

Fusion, the JWST and the F-35 have different principal constraints (the JWST seems the simplest, it is simply cost constrained - every part of the R&D/assembly/verification process seems so underfunded that all the other parts/participants have to wait for each other - and downtime is not cheap either, specialists can't just go and have a gig while they wait for others/testing/manufacturing; the F-35 is probably very bureaucratically constrained, a bit like ITER [the big international fusion project] - everyone has a small part in it, so there's is lots and lots and even more back and forth between everybody, problems are discovered, tweaking needs discussions, discussions with many parties are a nightmare, everything needs paperwork, because it's public money after all, etc.)

This does not make the F35 "bad", but of course begs the question of spending efficacy. Was there really no better way to spend all this money and achieve very similar goals? There probably was.

But. Usually these projects are a success even if the end result is useless. Because they fund R&D in many places.

For example a good overview of how mega-R&D translates into tangible innovations is the W7X brochure: https://www.ipp.mpg.de/987655/w7x_and_industry_en.pdf (Germany spent a few hundred millions euros, and most of that went to small shops iterating on their tech - which of course helps Germany remain competitive on the global markets).

[Gibbon1]

I'm not remembering all the details (I think the F-102). They tried an all service fighter back in the 1950's and the Navy eventually put their foot down. My impression has been the F35 is spork with wings.

[ionised]

Are you sure it's not just a case of armchair engineering as in the case of armchair psychology?

Lots of HN comments pretend to know everything about depression and its cures despite posting totally incorrect information on the subject.

People here tend to speak with authority on many things they actually know next to nothing about.

[stunt]

> I’m amazed at the quantity and quality of the comments.

How do you measure the quality if you are not an expert?

Surely many are an enthusiast in aeronautics. There are plenty of documentaries and incredibly lots of information on the internet about aeronautics. And I believe that's still just some shallow information.

[colordrops]

Lots of software people work in aerospace and military.

[A2017U1]

Relatively?

Find that hard to believe.

[ethelward]

No, in absolute numbers.

[theoh]

Aeronautics is (still) an incredibly glamorous field, and fighter jets and aviation disasters are a stereotypical topic of fascination for male engineers. HN is all about the "cool", charismatic side of engineering, and it doesn't get much cooler than critiquing warplanes and analysing air disasters.

Geeking out about this kind of topic is routine for people with an interest in engineering. And let's be clear: it really is just a matter of geeking out, people getting a thrill out of playing at "appearing to really know their stuff".

[csomar]

The HN audience is very big. So having 20-30 who are specialized in very niche domain becomes quite probable. Unlike Reddit, HN gets moderated heavily for useless and troll comments. The noise is reduced.

[biztos]

I've asked myself this too, and it occurred to me that there are a fair number of people on HN who are "older" (even older than me!) and Defense/Aerospace were pretty common places for techies to work in, say, the 80's. Often the only game in town.

That, and I think tons of tech-oriented people love flying machines, and a good exit or a fat Google salary makes it much more realistic to exercise that passion in real life.

[rtkwe]

There's been a decade of smart (at least seeming) people complaining about how badly conceived and pointing out the various issues with the plane are. So at this point distinguishing between people who have the experience to know what they're saying and people who have read a lot about the F-35 program is going to be a bit tough in a vacuum.

[whenchamenia]

Sadly, most of the 'informed' comments here are anything but. 60% seem to just wanna trash on the military, 20% took a flight on a cessna once and think theyre pilots, 10% knew a guy in the 'defense industry' and 10% are bleating their political opinion, poorly dressed in technical garb. Take it all with a gargantuan pile of salt.

[gdy]

"appear to really know their stuff when it comes to aeronautics"

Are they? How do you know that?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect